Episode #6 - Vedant Pradeep

[00:00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable Podcast, a podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

In today's episode, we will be talking with the co-founder and C E O of the Reframe app Vedant Pradeep. We chat about making sustainable changes in our life, challenging ourselves to grow, and the idea of the heroes journey and what we can learn from it.

My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

So without any further delay, let's go chat with [00:01:00] Vedant.

Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast. With me today is co-founder and C E O of the Reframe app. Vedant Pradeep. Welcome, Vedant, how's it going?

Vedant: Thanks for having me, Kevin. It's going well. Yeah. How about you?

Kevin: I'm doing well. Just kind of, uh, getting some work done today and we're moving along here and we're rolling on this podcast, so I'm having a good time.

Glad to be talking with you. Today, wanted to dive in a little bit about the Reframe app what it is and how it came about, a little bit of background. I know a lot of people are interested in that. And just to go from there and see, you know, what we have moving forward.

So, to just kick it off I'd like to ask you if you'd like to share a little bit of background about Reframe in general and how it came to be.

Vedant: Yeah, no, for sure. So I guess like the original mission, it's still our mission, uh, with Reframe was to help people, you know, achieve [00:02:00] the best version of themselves.

We call it peak human condition, like the best version physically, mentally, emotionally. And that's kind of how we started with Reframe, right? Uh, but when we started out, we realized. You know, maybe we wanted to start with a real problem and then kind of work towards peak human condition. Um, so I personally suffer from O C D, so we thought, you know, it might be a good idea to start with you helping people with OC D Um, so as we we're talking to more people with O C D, we were realizing a trend.

For a lot of people they started drinking a lot, you know, to kind of self-medicate, to help with their O C D and for people that kind of drank too much, there was not really a great way to get help. Like, there were these recovery centers that were incredibly expensive, uh, and there was Alcoholics Anonymous 12 step programs, very stigmatic.

Nothing really in the middle. And that's where we were like, okay, maybe this is like a really important problem to solve. So let's start with that. So that's really how Re frame got started. But it was, you know, anything but a linear journey. Uh, we learned a [00:03:00] lot along the way, like we started with this app that helped people deal with cravings, but as we were like and as we were helping more and more people, we realized that that was not really what people needed, right? Like what people wanted was like a place that they could go to that could really like, take them, like help them navigate the entire journey to, to essentially cut back and become better.

And I think that's what Reframe came to be. But yeah, we don't stop at just helping people cut back, right? Like we, we help, we kind of go further. We help them build great habits, we help them manage their emotions. And the idea is we help them become the best version of themselves.

Kevin: Yeah, that's, that's great because becoming the best version of yourself, like that's a broad idea, right? I mean, that's it's a kind of a high level thing that sometimes unattainable, sometimes, like how, what does that look like? What is that? But to continue to work on that, right? And, and that has a lot of crossover related to alcohol with cutting back or quitting because it's not just about drinking, right?

It's about all the [00:04:00] reasons we do drink and how we can help those areas.

Vedant: I mean, like, you know, exactly like you said, and, and you know this, but you know, as, uh, through the process of helping probably like more people than any other organization in the world cut back on drinking alcohol. I mean, it's something that.

That we've learned, isn't it? Like, you know, the best way to sustainably cut back on alcohol is to build a life where you don't need that alcohol. And the way to do that is to kind of, you know, essentially effectively manage your emotions, uh, build healthier habits and build a great life.

I mean, at the end of the day, alcohol is an unhealthy coping strategy. It is a symptom. It is not the problem. Yeah. Uh, itself so yeah, they're very interconnected. They're essentially the same.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. And, and that middle that you're talking about, right? I think that middle is definitely lacking in a lot of other programs, a lot of other ways to go about this because, right.

I mean, uh, you know, I, like I said in the fir in our first podcast, like there's a lot of gray area between black and white, right? There's a, there's a, it's a whole spectrum that we [00:05:00] fall on and a lot of people aren't at, you know, with alcohol it's framed where you have to have, you either have a problem or you don't.

And if you don't have a problem, then you don't ha then why would you even think about cutting back? Right? Why would you think about stopping? Um, but there's a lot of people out there who are, because alcohol impacts their lives negatively, they're not being that best version of themself and they know it.

Um, right.

Vedant: Um, I mean, I guess like, you know, our mission with for Reframe in that sense is to like, Make sure or get people to a point where they don't need the alcohol, right? Like, you know, whether or not they, uh, choose to drink, to socialize or whatever. I mean, as long as you don't need it, as long as you're not controlled by alcohol, as long as you're not using it as a coping strategy to kind of mask any of the other issues, like, then you've got a healthy relationship with alcohol. Uh, and, and the idea is to get people to that point.

Kevin: There's an amount of risk with. Anything that we do, uh, you know, typically whether it's alcohol, like alcohol is a toxin, right? So there is [00:06:00] a risk there that we take, but, you know, just like anything else, so is, so we're cigarettes obviously that's well known, but you know, whether it's junk food or binge watching TV or just any of these negative things that we see in our life, like there's trade offs and people are willing to accept different levels of that trade off.

With the Reframe app you can go into, Hey, I want to cut back on this. I mean, I'm, I'm at this level. I want to be down at this level. Uh, or other people are cutting back to zero or quitting altogether, you know, from the start. So, definitely a lot of ways to go about that based on each individual person's own journey.

So what is your thought process behind Reframe in general and how it's set up to help people cut back on, cut back and reduce. And when I say cut back for everybody listening, like cut back or quit, right? It's the same thing. Cut back to quit or cutting back, uh, and quitting. Um, [00:07:00] so, I'm using that interchangeably, uh, right now.

Vedant: Yeah, I know for sure. So, the primary idea behind Reframe is to help people shift the way that they think about drinking to achieve sustainable change, right? Like we've never, we were never really big fans of the idea of just, you know, restriction as a primary means to like cut back. I mean, at best it creates awareness, which is good, but you know, that in itself is not good enough to like in.

To essentially help people cut back on alcohol. So the way that we went about it is like, we wanted to help people shift the way they thought about drinking, and ultimately realize that, well, alcohol is an unhealthy coping strategy, and we wanted to help people identify what it is that they're actually using alcohol to mask, to help them identify the triggers to, to kind of, you know, essentially challenge the negative thoughts that they have with alcohol.

Like, I need to drink to relax, things like that that we. Can help reframe and essentially help them develop coping strategies, coping skills, uh, to set goals and of course to like track [00:08:00] progress and also to get support from other people who are also on this journey. So to kind of, you know, put that like all together.

To create that one place where anyone can go to, regardless of where they currently are, and get all the help they need to cut it back to wherever you know they want to go essentially, right? And everyone's experience is very, very different. And we wanna make sure that we can help them in the way that works for them.

So it's a very, very personalized program to help someone cut background alcohol use. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. And that's all of the feedback that I see too is that it's like that choose your own adventure, right? It's that, hey, if I wanna just come in and not talk to a single person and I want to do my daily tasks and learn the neuroscience behind alcohol and what it's doing to me, my relationship, my body, my brain, you know all that, I can do that, right?

And if I want to, Join a meeting, uh, and get that community. I can do that. I have a forum in there where I can talk to people, but it's giving people, and there's a toolkit where, you know, whether it's just I wanna [00:09:00] distract myself for 20 minutes to get through a craving, or I want to map out some coping strategies and things like that.

Like, there's all of that stuff in the app, but ultimately, like everything I'm saying there, right, that's what people need to find in order to make a change with anything. Right? You need to, you need to learn. It's good to get around other people who are doing that thing that you want to do. It's about getting connected and getting support from those people too.

And it's about finding the tools that are gonna help me along the way. So, you know, I love that it's all in that one little package in my pocket. I can pull out whatever I want. Um, I know I'm sounding like an ad here, but that, that's like very, I'm, I'm trying to bring it out of, outside of the app and just kind of show how simplistically these are the things that we need to do in order to reframe our relationship with anything.

Right. I love that, uh, aspect of it. So what's different about Reframe [00:10:00] than 12 step program or a different recovery program or just some other tool that might, hey, maybe just, I'm, I'm reading some books or things like that. What's makes it different about Reframe, um, and why is that important?

Like, what are some of the, the differences that we focus on here?

Vedant: So essentially like a couple of key things, like one, like reframe, kind of identify, kind of figures out like what your journey looks like, what you know, the problems that you struggle with, your reasons to change and builds a program tailored to your needs.

So essentially it's a personalized program and if you think about it, like, you know, the, the journey to cutting back is very, very different for pretty much. Right. Like no two experiences are really the same. And so we kind of take that into account and create a program that works for you.

So that is one key thing. Second, like Reframe is, You know, and I don't mean this in like just, uh, to brag about Reframe, but Reframe is literally the only program that brings together [00:11:00] all the possible things that you need in one place. And testament to that is the fact that we are the number one alcohol reduction platform out there.

And uh, it is because it's not because we've got any other advantage. It's because people have chosen us simply because of the value that Reframe does provide. Um, and we've got a very strong community. Like with, you know, millions of Reframers at this point that you know, that are there to support you through this journey.

And that is so critical because The reality is no journey is going to be perfect. There are going to be slips, there are going to be falls along the way, and having other people that you can count on, like whether it's the coaches or whether it's like, you know, other people in the Reframe community to kind of, you know, just motivate you when you're feeling down or like to inspire you because.

You know, they've been through the same journey. I mean, they've kind of, you know, felt more or less the same things as you have. And, uh, just to see that is, is very powerful. Uh, so having all these things in one place can be very, very handy, very powerful, and that's what Reframe does.

Kevin: Yeah and you touched upon there like slips and [00:12:00] having that support of the community whenever that does happen, and that's the thing that comes up a lot in our community meetings and all that.

It's like, you know, e everybody always asks like, I had a slip? Do I reset my day count? Do I reset that? Like what are your, what, how do you view that as far as part of any journey? How do you view like the merits of resetting our day counts and, and things like that, or keeping it going.

Vedant: I mean, uh, to me, like, you know, and this is the case with every kind of journey out there.

It's not just alcohol reduction, but it definitely applies to alcohol reduction as well. Yeah. And there are going to be days when, you know, you slip. This is the reality of this journey, right? Like, of course you should focus on not slipping and kind of hitting your goals. But there will be times when that happens.

And, and the most critical thing is like, you know, how do you pick up, how do you learn from that and keep moving forward? Because no journey is complete without the ups and downs and it's gonna be there. It's never like a straight line. It's like, you know, it's a, it's a very wobbly [00:13:00] line with ups and downs and the important thing is you are a little better off than you were yesterday, and you keep doing that over and over again, over time, you're going to get to where you want to go and beyond. Yeah. And, and, and that's a really, that's the important part. And I also realized, I never kind of talked about this when you asked me the last question about like reframe and also like the important thing, the fact that we rely on science to help people cut back and change the way they think about drinking.

That is pretty unique. And I think that is very important, especially since you, you kind of mentioned 12 steps in the same line. I mean, 12 steps can be effective for people but I do think that self-efficacy is the name of the game. Like, uh, defining yourself as an alcoholic.

Definitely isn't going to help because now, like every drink that you see it becomes an uphill battle because now you think of yourself as an alcoholic and you are trying, you're struggling to kind of stay away from it, don't touch it. That kind of thing doesn't help. Um, but if you think of yourself as a non-alcoholic that just, you know, that happens to drink too much or whatever, it's, it's, it's actually a lot better because, At that point[00:14:00] you don't include alcohol in your identity, right?

Like, if you think of yourself as well, uh, you just happen to drink too much, that's actually better and we help you change the way you think about yourself as well. Yeah. Um, and yeah.

Kevin: And yeah, and I think that's important because, again, going back to, hey, there's different things out there that people are gonna use and different things work for different people, and some people are drawn towards, Uh, one thing versus another.

And I think having more options out there, having those things available, because like you said, like talking about the science, right? That's, that's a big focus because I think that's important to show people. And, and a lot of people have gotten help from the science in Reframe and elsewhere where it's, um, This is what's, what alcohol's doing to me when, whenever I, whenever I ingest it, it's affecting these parts of my body.

It's affecting my brain in this way. Right? So, you know, it, it takes it out of. Hey, I have a flaw I am a problem. I have a [00:15:00] problem to the fact that no, this is how alcohol impacts everyone. And we're all just at kind of maybe different parts of that journey, but different parts of that timeline and realizing like, okay, it's not just me, right?

It's not, I have a problem where I don't, it's not that black and white thinking. Right. You know? I think that's important to help people learn. I mean, if we don't learn and try things differently. Be from that information then taking that what we learn, using it in our day-to-day is so important to keep moving forward and changing.

Vedant: Absolutely. I mean, alcohol impacts the brain. I mean, it impacts, you know, neurotransmitters, it impacts a lot of different things. So it's not really you, you're not really in control. It's changing the way that you make decisions because it's changing the parts of your brain that are involved in making those decisions.

So, yeah it's important to understand how it is that alcohol really affects you because, Then, you know, you can kind of look up strategies or, you know, devise strategies to actually [00:16:00] counter that. And also, it's a nice thing to know, uh, and it can be helpful when it comes to not blaming yourself and actually making changes to your life.

Kevin: Yeah. And, 12 step programs and those things, like they work for people. But using myself as an example, they weren't going to work for me because I did not see myself going through and saying any of the things that, Hey, I'm an alcoholic. I'm this, and it, it actually held me back from making a change as it does many people that I talk to.

Um, just that not, you know, not the 12 step program itself, but those saying those types of words, admitting that I have a problem, admitting that, and I admit I have a problem, but. I, I went about it in a different way and I went about it with connection, with people, with learning and things of that nature to help myself.

And that's part of the reason why I do what I do, is because I want to let people know that there, you don't have to hit a rock bottom. You don't have to [00:17:00] be somebody with a problem or not in order to make a change. You can make that change at any point in time.

Vedant: Right. And, I think the important thing is, I mean, People can change. That's the beautiful thing about neuroplasticity. You are not stuck, uh, as the same person that you were when you kind of made those choices. Cuz you can consciously make efforts to like change the way you think and that in turn can kind of change your brain the way the, your brain is wired.

Essentially that's the process of neuroplasticity and you can change. So, uh, it is actually not helpful to kind of label yourself as an alcoholic in perpetuity because that is actually not true. Like you can actually change that. And, um, so yeah. And. Of course, like connection is so powerful. Like connecting with other people who are on the same journey, like just talking with them, feeling not alone and support is incredible.

I mean, we are, as humans, connection is like, yeah. So critical to our needs. And I think, that is very powerful. Um,

Kevin: yes, 100% because we [00:18:00] don't. I, I know I tried, uh, many times to do this on my own and say, I'm giving this up now I'm cutting back. I'm doing this, and I just tried to white knuckle my way through.

It will power my way through it. And it wasn't until I reached out and a, you know, got some help of my own, that a change actually happened. Nobody does anything by themselves, right? I mean, people are like, oh, I'm self-made and all this. It's like, no, you had help, you had teachers, you had people, you had relatives, friends, all that.

So yeah, realizing that we can get help for this too, in order to change and again, what you said at the beginning, become the best version of ourself.

Vedant: Absolutely. I mean, the way that I think about it is you can probably get from point A to point B by yourself, but it's gonna be hard, like, uh, and, but when there are others to support you through the journey where you can get through it much faster, learn from the collective experience, kind of, you know, go through the struggles together, celebrate the victories together.

I mean, that's just a whole lot better, a whole lot faster. You don't need to make [00:19:00] all the mistakes yourself. So yeah, connecting with other people can be incredibly powerful. In any journey.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely. So recently we just went through, now dry January is a big kickoff to the new year, right?

And, recently we introduced now to a new term of damp January. So what are your thoughts on expanding something that's established like dry January to something like a damp January? So if you'd like to let people know what is damp January?

Obviously dry January, you don't drink What's damp?

Vedant: Right. I mean, so the thing with damn January is, I mean, it's just like dry January except you cut back on alcohol versus cutting it out entirely. And the thinking behind this is, I mean, not everybody wants to quit entirely. There's that, um, and most people that kind of engage in dry January, they want to like, become healthier.

They want, uh, and you can do the same thing with damp January as well. And you know, the good thing about any of these challenges is that, it's kind of limited, right? It's not saying [00:20:00] you're gonna be dry in perpetuity or you're gonna like cut back forever. So the very nature of a limit makes it a lot more achievable in general.

So it's a great starting point and maybe like you do it and then you realize, holy shit, like, you know, I'm feeling a lot better and I like this version of me that doesn't drink. And maybe you wanna just extend that further and that's great. Uh, but you know, the fact that there is a limit is actually a good thing.

And I guess like in the, the problem with dry January is that it still kind of focuses on perfection. And I've kind of known a lot of people that, for whom this has happened, where, in the middle they have a slip or they get a couple of drinks and all of a sudden, like they think the challenge is over, like I've already ruined it.

Um, now what's the point of like, you know, drinking less anymore? I mean, in fact we see this, uh, so constantly in the app as well. Um, and, and that's actually harmful because. Ultimately, like we are forgetting the part that we actually spent x number of days before that, like without actually drinking.

And that in itself [00:21:00] has had so many benefits, right? Like, so the fact that you drank should not stand in the way. So that's why we kind of wanted to basically introduce a more or less perfect version of dry January where the focus is on the benefits, the focus is on like yes, even if you just. Cut back on like a few drinks that is still very good for you. Like that is still like, you know, your, your heart and all your other organs are thanking you for it. Your sleep is getting better. You're just getting more energy, more focus. So it's, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

It doesn't have to be like, oh, if you don't complete the entire challenge, you've kind of, lost something. It's not the case you've gained still, even if it is not perfect. So in that sense, we wanted to do damp January where if you want to cut back, you can do that, and that is still great. You can experience some of the same benefits by cutting back on alcohol.

And also there are cases where people drink a lot and like all of a sudden just bringing down to nothing can actually be unsafe. It is not a good way to do it. So we typically recommend 10 to 25% reduction[00:22:00] weekly as you know, Kevin, and so that is actually a good target. I mean, I've loved the book Atomic Habits, like making small changes towards the goal that makes it a whole lot more sustainable than trying to go from like, you know, trying to go all the way down.

That generally is

Kevin: unsustainable. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, and since you brought up Atomic Habits, I'll dive into that because the first thing that comes to mind is what he says in that book is you don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems, meaning your habits, your routines.

So if we set out with a goal of, Hey, I'm not going to drink in, let's say January, so I'm not gonna drink this month. What do we change, right? How are we going to do that? A lot of times like, okay, here's my story. I did, I tried a sober October and I made it four days.

Four days, and then I drank, and then I was like, well, I guess October's over. I didn't try anything new. I just said, I am not drinking [00:23:00] this month, and I didn't do anything and therefore I failed. And I just was like, okay, I guess this month's over, I'll wa I'll wait till next month maybe to start again. And it's that perfection that you talked about.

But I didn't change any of my habits. I didn't change any of my systems, so how was I ever going to achieve that goal? Right? And making sure that we focus on this tiny improvements over time. Uh, like you said, cutting back going from drinking x a week, whatever, X is down to zero can be unsafe, can be dangerous, can be life-threatening.

So that is something to keep in mind. And, uh, being able to reduce, make tiny changes, like you said, 10 to 25% depending on the level you're drinking at making that little progress each week is going to pay off in the long term. But the problem is, is sometimes like we were like, I wanna do this now.

Like, I can't do that because Right. You know, we get it in our, we get in our head and, uh, but recognizing that, hey, there's this, it's [00:24:00] not dry January alone, it's, there's also this damp January, it kind of removes that barrier to entry of being able to make a change. Like, okay, well you do dry January, whoever that is, you know, I'm talking to my friend now.

You do dry January, I'll do damp. I'm gonna cut back. Because like you said, that's, that's progress, right? That's making change.

Vedant: Right. I mean, I guess like you mentioned, we never want like, perfection to be the enemy of progress. I mean, we want, uh, like we wanna prioritize progress of our perfection and in general, like, and even when you think about neuroplasticity in the brain, like.

Anything that you do repeatedly over a long period of time kind of gets, you know, it becomes stronger, like your connections around that particular habit or actions become stronger. Um, so it's important to do it like over a long period of time versus like, you know, doing something intense for like a very, very short duration isn't going to help as much.

I mean, it's just like, you know, if you wanna go to the gym and build muscles or whatever, like if you go in and you kind of go all out the first day it is over, like, uh, chances are you're not [00:25:00] going again And. It's not very, and you're not gonna get like, the development that you wanna see just because you worked out really hard for like three hours that one day.

Right? But if you do it like one step at a time, like five to 10 minutes or whatever, you start out with that, but you do that consistently over time, the gains that you're gonna see are gonna be incredible. So, yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. And right. Recognizing that I drank for 20 years. People drank for a long period of time, and it's gonna take more than a month to make a change to our habits. Make a change that's gonna last. It's not gonna take another 20 years, but it'll take a little bit of time. So giving ourself that grace to be able to do that is key. And yeah, like you said, I've, I've done plenty of things where in my day where, you know I went back to the gym and did a little too much and paid for it and be like, all right, well, uh, that, that ruins me for the next, like, two weeks.

Um, or throws my back out since I'm old now. Uh, and it's like you, Hey, I'm gonna train for a marathon. You don't start [00:26:00] out running 20 miles. You start out building up that base, that foundation that is going to help carry you forward. Same thing with alcohol.

And I think same thing, the way the Reframe is set up is the readings and the information and the journal prompts and all the work that people put in, in the daily tasks builds that foundation, right? You start from, Day one, and you work your way up and you go through what that person might be feeling on day two, on day 10, on day 20.

Um, and that can bring some comfort because Oh yeah, like, hey, I, I am noticing that, or, no, not yet, but oh, I noticed it a couple days later. And, and, but just gives people that comfort that they're on the right path.

Vedant: Absolutely. I mean, we are kind of helping set the pace there so that you don't need to think about the whole, like, how do I, how do I design this journey?

Because we kind of designed that for you to make it a lot easier. The idea is, I mean, to towards progress in general in, in any field and, uh, you kind of push yourself only to like, Only a little bit, just a little bit each [00:27:00] time so that you get incrementally better over time versus pushing yourself so hard that, you know you stand your own way, but

Kevin: yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned about the, uh, perfection too. The problem with dry January because, and that's, that, that's the problem with a lot of, when people start down the road of changing their relationship with alcohol, right?

Those slips, those things that happened that we kind of mentioned before you know we get caught up in like, oh, I have to go back to day one. And it's one thing that I know I talk about a lot in meetings and talk with people about is that okay? Maybe, maybe this is your first day in this new streak, and you can look at it that way, but don't forget that this is day 60 that you've been working on this.

And of those 60 days 95% of the time you've been alcohol free or you've been on target with your cutback goals and things like that. So not forgetting that, just because I do something that's not how I wanted it to happen, whether that's drinking or whether that's drinking more than [00:28:00] I intended, that doesn't negate the work that we put in.

Right. Absolutely. I mean, I hear it so much that, you know, I, I did it myself. It took a lot of time and I, and I look back now and realize that every slip I had, every time I drank, or every time I drank more than I wanted to when I was trying to figure out whether I was quitting or cutting back and all that stuff, all of that, I hindsight's 20/20, right?

But all of that helped me to get to where I am today. And I'm thankful for those. And that's, just important to remember that it's never a failure, always a lesson type of thing.

Vedant: Right. Absolutely. Looking differently at like, you know, the problems and things that come our way.

And I think, I love the name Re frameable, uh, or Reframe in general. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what it is, right? You can kind of think of anything in multiple different ways you can think of it. Holy shit. Like, I am, I am done. Like this is really hard. I kind of, uh, fell. Or you can think this is another challenge.

Now let me see how I respond to it. Am [00:29:00] I gonna get up or am I gonna like stay down. And if you kind of look at things that way can be very, very powerful because ultimately, like we are all going to face challenges and, and no matter what it is, yeah. And, and if you think about it from like, the perspective of a movie, I mean, there's this whole concept around a hero's journey.

So think about a movie where like the hero faces no challenges whatsoever. Like they're like the strongest out there. They can just go in and whoop the bill villains butt like, nothing like, uh, you're not gonna watch the movie cuz that movie sucks. It's the challenges that actually make it really interesting.

And, and it's the same for life as well, like, Uh, when a challenge comes your way, you can fall or you can kind of choose to look at it as a challenge, something to overcome and crack at it until you kind of cross over it and get to the next level. And ultimately, like, you know, you're gonna be thankful for all the challenges that you've overcome because over time it's gonna make you stronger.

Kevin: Yeah, absolutely, even Superman has his kryptonite, right?

Vedant: Uh, right. Without kryptonite it's funny, it's really interesting, right? Like, I mean, when they kind of written the character of Superman, if not for kryptonite, [00:30:00] like that story would be like, really horrible and nobody would watch it.

Right? Like it's really bad. Like there's this person, they can do everything. I mean, nobody can stand up to that. That's really bad, right? Like it's a bad story, bad movie. Yep. But the fact that we're a kryptonite. Makes it human

Kevin: ish. Right, exactly. That's, yeah, that's a great point. It makes us, it makes it human.

And that's what we all are, right? And nobody's perfect, and I always remind people of that because we like to compare, right? As humans, we like to compare between other people and we see just to say like, just because I'm on day 10 and this person's on day 10 they're doing great and they're feeling great, they're sleeping well.

I can't sleep. I'm feel horrible. All this, and we compare, but make sure that, you know, like what day 10, what number, uh, how many times did they get to day 10? Like maybe this is their 50th time in a row getting into day 10, and now they're killing it because they've learned over time how they need to get here, what they need to do.

Whereas this is my first perhaps, right? So it's just, you know, when we [00:31:00] compare, we forget about people's own journey, people's own hero story for themselves that, uh, that we don't see in the background. So yeah, definitely nobody goes about this very, you know, uh, there's a struggle, you know, it's just, we have different struggles, right?

You know, we're all different. We all face different challenges in our life. And, uh, remembering that, all I can do is try and reframe how I see my struggles, my challenges, and see if I can, what I can do to change 'em.

Vedant: Absolutely and this is idealistic in a sense, but if you only compare you to like, to the person that you were a day ago and like, you know, as long as you're better than that, well you are like in the best place that you can possibly be because any other kind of comparison is actually like, uh, it's not useful generally, but that is very idealistic because Nobody can be perfect, but at the same time, I mean, it is really a good thing to try and compare yourself just to the person that you were yesterday.

Kevin: Yeah, yesterday, last week, last month, last year. Yeah. Whatever it is, because, you know, then, then it's, then it goes [00:32:00] to the, well, I'm worse than I was yesterday. Right? I did something where I'm worse than I was yesterday, but, We gotta, we gotta look a little bit bigger, that global perspective, but I know, I know what you mean.

I'm, I'm

Vedant: right. Uh, yeah. Yesterday, not necessarily just like the calendar date yesterday. Yeah, exactly. But yeah. But you were a week before, like a month before. A year before. Yeah. How far are you from that really matters.

Kevin: And even if this is day zero, day one for me. You're different than yesterday because you are looking to make a change and Right.

That's sometimes the biggest step is to either reach out for help, ask other people for help or just to decide like, I need to, this isn't what I want to want in my life anymore. In this way. I need to change this.

Vedant: Yeah, I mean, in doing so, you're recognizing that there is an issue or there is a challenge that you want to of overcome and you're taking the steps to like crack at it and get through to the other side.

And, and that is like the first step and that is like [00:33:00] a very, very important step. You c you can't do it without that, that step.

Kevin: No, absolutely. Recently Reframe was ranked number two in the wellness category on Fast Company's, annual list of most innovative companies in the world. Congratulations. That's an awesome accomplishment.

Vedant: Congratulations to you as well.

I mean, cool.

Kevin: Well, my question is, is what do you envision as the next step forward for Reframe in this goal to help people become the best version of themself. Anything you'd like to share on that?

Vedant: Yeah, for sure like I mentioned earlier, like there are like a thousand different, actually more different like ways and different kinds of journeys that people have.

So our goal with re reframe is to make, reframe smarter, like whether it's using AI and other technologies to ensure that we create a program that is perfectly fit for your needs and tailored to the kind of challenges that you're facing and to help you overcome them. So essentially to [00:34:00] make reframe like a lot smarter and a lot more personalized to your goals. That is always our, goal with Reframe. And yeah, I mean we want to try and provide as much value as we can and most importantly we wanna kind of reduce like the amount of cognitive load that it takes to get through the alcohol reduction journey.

Cuz this is what we've found, right? Like we are incredibly busy, right? Everybody, all of us. We've got a lot of things going on in our lives, and having to, to kind of, you know, really think about different things like having to create all the plans ourselves, having to kind of, you know, uh, learn all these things ourselves.

That can be very, very difficult. So the goal with reframing is to make the entire process so much easier that you don't really need to like, Do a lot of planning and do a lot of like research yourself. We do all of that for you. And essentially that is the goal, like create like a program that is. Really easy to come in and follow, and you don't need anything else to kind of take you through the entire journey.

So we want to get reframed to that point. So that's what we are always [00:35:00] been, that we've always been working towards. And yeah, like I mentioned, like our mission is to not just help you cut back on drinking alcohol, but to help you become the best version of you. Um, and so we are always trying to find new ways to help people improve their habits, help people manage emotions better. So yeah, our goal is to work, continue working on all of that.

Kevin: That sounds great. And tailoring the app or the journey for each person, uh, to what they might be going through and, and maybe even more specific granular detail, yes. Is gonna be even more helpful than what it already is out there.

So that thank you for sharing that. Cuz yeah, you're right definitely more than a thousand different types of journeys out there. Right. And everybody's looking to do, you know, just because I'm looking to cut back on alcohol or quit alcohol, that's gonna look different. Me doing it to the next person doing it and, and the, the problems I face or the problems they face.

So being able to give people specific help, uh, [00:36:00] With that is, is gonna be amazing. Uh, so last question, uh, you know, what does it mean to you in your life with the challenges that you face both personally and professionally? What does it mean to you to be able to be re Reframeable?

Vedant: Right.

It's a, it's a very interesting kind of, uh, it's a very interesting question, right? I mean, um, we face a lot of challenges on like a daily basis and, um, the whole idea is like, I think Refr being able to reframe a situation is so critical because the way you look at things influences the way you're gonna act.

It influences how you think about it, it influences how you're feeling. And any situation can be kind of, you know, looked at in multiple different ways, right? Imagine like, You've got, let's say you've got a presentation and like you kind of feel like you also get sick on the same day. It's not like if you've been preparing for a long time and you're not feeling great, then it can be like, it can actually [00:37:00] kill your motivation a lot because you're like, okay, I put in all this effort and now I'm sick and it's gonna like take away from my performance or whatever.

But you can also see the situation differently. Here's an opportunity where I'm kind of dealt a bad hand where things are not going the way that I had wanted them to go. Now can I rise up to the challenge? And can I still, like, can I take all these like, you know, challenges and can I still break through it and, and, and kind of do a great job.

And if you look at things that way, if you continue to look at things as a challenge that comes your way, something for you to overcome, something for you to kind of show yourself that you had something in the reserves that you probably didn't know that you had and you can use it to kind of overcome it.

It's incredibly empowering because. Yeah, I mean, uh, all of a sudden you've kind of, you know, your perspective is very different and you, uh, you approach it very differently. So I think in that sense, like being able to reframe a situation is so critical. And I think it's one of the most important skills out there for pretty much anyone, [00:38:00] because challenges are guaranteed, like you are going to have challenges, you're gonna have obstacles.

If you look at them as obstacles, they're gonna stop you in your progress. Chances are it'll like it. You'll probably hit the first obstacle and you'll kind of bail out. Because, and you'll complain about all the bad things that are happening to you. But the ones that end up like going through this journey and becoming stronger, they all kind of think of it as the next challenge.

Something to make them stronger and they'll get through it. And. Once you crack through a challenge, that challenge is never going to get you again. I mean, at least for the most part, right? Like once you've kind of, you know, struggled with a certain kind of difficulty and overcome it, then you're confident that you can kind of face it the next time it come around, it comes around and that's how it get that, that's how it makes you stronger. So like being able to, to reframe a situation and kind of being able to see the challenge in any situation and being able to kind of tell yourself that's something that you want to overcome so that it's going to make you stronger.

Yeah, that can be incredibly powerful. And um, and I know [00:39:00] something about failure in the sense that, I mean, I've gone through a lot of it, right? Like, before starting Reframe, we built a lot of things that nobody cared about. I mean, that's, uh, it's part of the journey and I've probably failed more than mo most people in that sense.

And being able to, to kind of, you know, look at it as another situation that we need to overcome and we need to get through so that we can become stronger that's been very helpful in my life. It's given me the strength to carry forward. Um, because when things are not going your way, it's easy to get caught in this trap of like negative emotions and you feel it down to be able to kind of overcome that and, and keep moving forward, you need to change your perspective.

And, and that can be a big, big thing.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And even those journeys that you said that we, you know, we overcome and we get past them, right? Those, that doesn't mean that we can't slip back to old ways or things like that. But that's where we say to ourself, right, I, I did this before.

I know I can do it again. And reframing that and also I think reframing like kind of what you said there, it's [00:40:00] almost like I. Uh, reframing something from, I have to do this. Like, I have to, versus I get to right. Uh, you know, alcohol is wrecking my life. You know, just using alcohol as an example.

Alcohol is wrecking my life. It's causing all these negative consequences and my, with myself, my health, my relationships, whatever it is have to make this change. I can't keep doing this. I gotta change. Versus, you know what? Looking at it as an, I get to make this change in order to be better.

And, and it's not an easy thing to think about, especially when you're tackling a challenge early, whatever that challenge might be. Uh, but that's where having something that you do on a regular basis, day in, day out, that you're focused on learning how to improve and, and remembering that you can do it is important.

Vedant: Absolutely, and, and like I, I recognize that, you know, when we kind of say it that way of, oh, you can kind of look at it differently as a challenge and then you kind of crack it, it seems very rosy as a picture. Like, oh, all of a sudden things change. Generally speaking, I mean, in reality, that's often [00:41:00] not, The case, like where a challenge is still hard, no matter how you look at it, but the way that you look at it can kind of change your effort.

Can, and, and chances are it's not like, oh, you looked at it differently, you just cracked through it and you went to the other side. Chances are it's kind of hurt still, and you're gonna fall many, many, many times before you get through. But kind of telling yourself like, this is one thing that I need to, that, you know, that I get to overcome.

Like, like you mentioned, it can be incredibly powerful because That's kind of makes that what makes you who you are, like the fa the things that you've overcome. That is who you are. Yeah. Like, you know, it's not, uh, if you've been dealt an easy hand and things are, like, if everything's easy for you, then there is no meaning, right?

Like there is no fun. Like playing a game over and over again and easy mode is probably not something that people do simply because there's no fun in it. Yeah. Like it's the challenges that make it so difficult. Yes. I mean, you get to overcome you know your, like you, you drink too much.

Yeah. Now you need to overcome that and then you need to get to the other side and still get to where you wanna go. [00:42:00] Like that is like, yes, you're playing the game in medium or difficult or like whatever. And. You're getting better for it. Yeah. Now you've got experience like cutting back on alcohol.

You've got experience overcoming adversity in multiple fronts and getting to where you want to go. So, uh, in my eyes, you're more powerful for it. And if you can overcome, if you can do that, you can do so many other things. I mean, you can, um, yeah. Just kind of reframing the way that you think about this can be so empowering.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, getting through challenges gets us to newer better challenges. Right. Um, right. And, and we, we level up. Right. And, and that's, and that's how we should look at it because, you could do, going back to a dry January challenge or something like that. Like you can do a dry January and you could be successful and you can get to the end of January, and then you could go on February 1st and, and just drink your face off.

Right? You, you did the challenge, but what did you learn from it? Like, did you change anything in your life? Right? Uh, so it, [00:43:00] it's whenever you do these things, being able to then carry that forward and, and take that information that you got from it that you learned and carry that forward.

And that doesn't then, maybe, Hey, I'm gonna reintroduce alcohol into my life, but I'm gonna be more mindful about it. I'm going to be more aware of it and more focused on it based on what I learned. Right? So overcoming the challenge and also leveling up and continuing to improve and be that best version of you.

Vedant: Absolutely. I mean, yeah, every challenge gets you to a better place. Every challenge you overcome, like Yeah. Yeah. I mean, whenever like we kind of talk about it, I always think like, Just being able to see your life that way and I've talked to a lot of people that have been like incredibly successful, that have come from like very difficult circumstances.

And that is something that I've seen in common with all of these people. I mean, they kind of think about like things as like opportunities and these are things that I need to overcome. They're so fiercely, like competitive, but with [00:44:00] themselves. And they're like, okay, I, I did this. I'm getting all this experience.

And it, it really does change you, right? Like, you know, when you. Take these risks and when you get to a new place, like you, you're just so much better than the person that you were simply because of what you've overcome and looking at life that way can be very, very powerful. Very rewarding.

Kevin: Absolutely. Well, Vedant, thank you for coming on the Reframeable podcast and sharing with us today. Uh, a little bit of background about Reframe as well as your own thoughts on, these challenges and how we can keep moving forward, overcoming them and becoming better for 'em. Right. Being the best version of you.

I love that.

Vedant: Absolutely. Yep. Life is a game to be the best version of you, right? Like Exactly. Ultimately,

Kevin: Let's just keep leveling up. Absolutely. Awesome. All right. All right. Thank you. Catch you later, Kevin.

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