Navigating the Seasons of Change

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Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the re frameable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, and enjoyment, and so much more. Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I am a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app

Emma: and Emma Simmons.

I'm a Reframer, a certified life coach and a Thrive coach with Reframe from New Zealand.

Kevin: Hey, Kev. Hey, how. How are you doing?

Emma: I am well. [00:01:00] We are wrapping up summer, which is sad. I'm trying to make the most of the sunshine when it comes because it's, we're heading into a long, we cold, although I say cold and I know it's not as cold as what you guys get cold for us is cold for me is like five degrees.

I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, but five degrees Celsius is,

Kevin: I know we

Emma: not comfortable for me, we do this every week.

Kevin: I, every week we Google, we do this and I'm like, shit, I should have that up. It's 41 degrees Fahrenheit. Yeah. That's chilly. It's not cold in my opinion. Yeah. People would say it's cold.

Emma: Yeah. That's I need extra layers on. Yeah. I'll put thermals on. Yeah. I like my thermals. Yeah. So yeah, heading into sort of, I don't know, hibernation season really, like the fun summer activities are winding up and Yeah. But I'm, autumn and spring are my favorite seasons like that there's this, when the sun [00:02:00] in autumn, like when the sun's starting to get further away from the earth and it's almost got like a lazy feel to it. I kinda like that sun, like sun in the middle of summer, it's like hot and it's yeah, energy and go, but when you're heading into autumn, it's okay, time to relax and retreat, withdraw a little bit.

And I that sun. It's a little bit lazier. So yeah, I'm not, I dunno, I guess I'm, I have mixed feelings about the coldness. I don't like how cold it is in the morning at 5:00 AM when I go to the gym. 'cause I used to just be able to run outside in my exercise gear and get in the car and go.

But now I'm, it's getting to the point where I'm gonna need a jumper. Not a jumper. A sweater.

Kevin: Sweater. It's so funny 'cause my wife and I were just talking about this yesterday. Yeah. I don't know why she brought it up. I think it was, she was watching some show and they were talking about it and I'm like, oh yeah, I already had a whole conversation with 'em on this yeah.

A hoodie. Yeah. And that's, [00:03:00] and this is the time of year here that it's, we're still in winter technically heading into spring. And it just so happens that today it is, I'm in Ohio and I think it was about. I have the feels like weather on my lock screen on my phone. I don't care about like what the actual temperature, like the, whatever the temperature they give.

I, I wanna know what it feels like. So this week it, I think it felt like 25, a couple days ago, maybe two days ago, three days ago. And it feels, can you play

Emma: Fahrenheit?

Kevin: Fahrenheit, which is negative four Celsius? I just looked it up and today it actually feels like 74, which is 23 Fahr Celsius.

Emma: Oh, nice.

Kevin: Yeah. So I don't know. I'm guessing that's gonna be fairly short lived, but we shall see.

Emma: That's such a huge swing in temperatures.

Kevin: Oh yeah. That's how it is. All the time. Like this time of year and the fall, it can go just back and forth. It can be snowing [00:04:00] one day in this, the next. It's crazy. Wow.

So

Emma: yeah, it like negative four or five would be as cold as it gets in New Zealand. Yeah. Might maybe get a little bit colder, way down the way down south, down by Antarctica, but it's not. Yeah. We don't have cold like you guys do. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. Another reason for Emma not to move to America.

Kevin: Okay.

It's a little bit I haven't looked at a map to see the size of New Zealand compared to here, but I

Emma: think it's about the size of California.

Kevin: Okay. I was gonna say yeah. Roughly you. It's probably like Ohio and a few, two, maybe two of the states below it lengthwise. So there's still a lot of,

Emma: there's a lot more America than just more South.

South.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah.

Emma: I won't be happy anywhere though. 'cause if you put me down south, I'd be like, it's hot and humid and muggy and I

Kevin: Oh yeah.

Emma: It's too hot.

Kevin: Yeah. I'm happy [00:05:00] here. I can, because it doesn't get too hot. It does maybe in August for me. But yeah, if I'm, if we end up moving down south I'm not gonna be as happy, but whatever.

I think that's what we're talking about leads well into Yeah. The topic. It wasn't

Emma: that the perfect segue.

Kevin: Yeah. That was not necessarily intended there. Or maybe it was, I don't know.

Emma: Clearly my brain was just already on seasons. 'cause that's what, when you asked how I was, that's immediately where my brain went.

Kevin: Yeah.

So seasons change. So we'll talk today, we're talking seasons of change. And what that, how that shows up and not just the, obviously like the literal seasons like we were just talking about. But there's so many like times in our life that are periods that can be, oh, how would you say it classified as something specific a period to rest, a period to [00:06:00] grieve, a period to work or to push ourselves, and there's any word you could use there or any

type of objective adjective. Yeah.

Emma: A is that the right one?

Kevin: What would you add? Which ones would you add to it?

Emma: I think like periods of growth like you can definitely, you can feel yourself when you're in this period of growth where you are maybe pushing yourself and stepping outside of your comfort zone and that feels okay, or, you just, I don't know, maybe you are going through a season of being really into like self-help books or educating yourself and growing yourself. Yeah. Seasons of growth are a big one. But then, the opposite side of that, you've gotta have balance, right? So then you need seasons of like hibernation or rest or chill or, I don't know, we call it hedgehog mode in our family where we like feel up in a blanket and just go into hedgehog mode.

And sometimes, and we need that. And your brain needs that. Your brain needs to rest. Your body needs to rest sometimes. But yeah, there are definite seasons [00:07:00] and it's not, there aren't four, it's not like the seasons in a year where there are four seasons in a year. Your seasons can be varying lengths and come and go.

And some of them can be really fricking long and feel.

Long.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. And I should to think of a bigger word

Emma: than long.

Kevin: No, that's true. And it's not like they're defined or clear cut either. It's not okay, it's February 1st. I am in this season of growth. Now I'm gonna start doing this. Which we can try and make that happen, but life happens, right? And then, we have to sometimes roll with what season we're in because it wasn't one we chose or it came out of nowhere or, and that doesn't have to be a negative thing either.

That can be a positive thing. Something happens, but it's that there's transitions, but there's also like [00:08:00] today using this like. A week ago when it was 20 degrees out here, I wouldn't have, obviously I could look ahead at the weather and all that and plan for it but I wouldn't have thought oh, I, I hope it's 74 next week.

That's but that happens, sometimes, even if we're in a season of even if our current status is hedgehog mode, we can still get, an energetic period of time throughout there or whatever.

Emma: Yeah, I think you can, sometimes it's might seem hard or difficult, but you can, when you're in hedgehog mode, you can look forward and be like, okay, but I know that this is coming up.

Or, maybe this event is coming up or maybe this, maybe it is physically the season's changing because we are yeah, more active in summer, it's easier to get outside and do things. Although I'm sure there are people that are like, snowing is the best, snowing, ISS the best, skiing's the best, and

Kevin: yeah,

Emma: I'm more active in winter.

But anyway, it could be that you're looking forward to an event or something environmental [00:09:00] to change that could, that, will help you shift out of this space that you're in.

Kevin: Yeah. And yeah, it's, and talking about this how this shows up. I don't know if you mentioned that, but just to, we always talk about how the jour, the journey isn't linear, right?

We don't start out and we touch on this a bit here, but we don't start out at point A and. Take that straight line to point B and we're done with the season and we're onto the next one. And point C, it loops around. It's we have to backtrack. We have to, keep figuring things out.

We have to keep learning, especially if we're trying to force something that maybe isn't ready yet. It's hard to understand that or see that or acknowledge that even when there is something we wanna do. But just asking questions along the way about how we're feeling and what's showing up now, and what do we want, there's so many variables that go into this.

So it's, there is [00:10:00] no like right or wrong answer, I don't think it's just, per me personally, it's taking it as it comes and trying to acknowledge it. Especially when I'm like, no, I don't want that season. Stop it. Yeah. I like, I've tried to push it away and, but sometimes when I do that I ended up just dragging out the inevitable of, you know what, Kevin, you're going to go through that season whether you like it or not.

'cause you have to and it's, when that happens, it's sometimes, just allowing it to be like, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna feel this, whatever this is, and go through it and then I'll continue, I can continue to work towards these other goals and things that I'm doing that I want to do as well.

Emma: Yeah. When you said journey, it made me think of like a road trip. Okay. Imagine you going on a road trip and the options are point A to point B on a highway straight road. Pretty boring. Or you take the scenic route [00:11:00] and there's mountains and there's twists and turns and there's tuttles and there's what's more interesting?

What's more? Yeah. I've always been there. Let's take the scenic route kind of gal. Yeah, I've definitely taken the scenic route in my life in general. I haven't done the standard, typical point A to point B kind of scenario. And it's, and it is, it's more interesting. But then, just like in a car trip when you're going around some windy bends, you can get bit car sick.

It can feel pretty shit. Yeah.

Kevin: Car trick, car sick, stressful. I was thinking like, knowing where you're going that type of thing. So Yeah, go ahead.

Emma: Yeah, there can be, yeah, those, there can be uncomfortable feelings and uncomfortable bits in it that don't feel good, but. I guess you don't appreciate the beautiful bits without experiencing some of the shit bits where you go, yeah, no, I didn't like that piece.

Yeah. And it's the same with our journey with alcohol. If we don't, sometimes we need to feel the shit [00:12:00] bits to be able to really enjoy the good bits.

Kevin: Sorry, just laughing at the, at the words ims, the phrase shit, bits hedgehog mode and shit. Bits. That's yes, those, the hashtags for today apparently.

Emma: But yeah, we are heading into, I think something I didn't realize or I hadn't learned until I was in it was we often tend to see around three or four months a bit of sort of recovery fatigue.

If you are. You head into this journey with a lot of gusto and a lot of determination often. And then we often see when, yeah, when people are getting to three to four months that you should get a bit tired, bit sick of it. It's a bit like the novelties worn off. And if you're anything like me, I was doing the daily tasks.

I was doing a challenge every day on the every month on the reframe map. I was doing all of the challenges. I was on all of the meetings, everyone I could get on. I was listening to sober podcasts. I was listening to sober [00:13:00] audio books. I was reading sober you Knowlet books. I was doing all the things and like my whole existence was being alcohol free.

And that got pretty exhausting. But I think it took, about three or four months before that got too much for me, but I didn't realize that was probably what I was doing. So I think, we're recording this now, sort of three and a half months into the year. So there's potentially a few people out there that are started with dry January and we're rolling on and that's awesome.

And so I just think having some awareness around, okay, so we might start to get a bit over it or a bit tired or a bit I don't know this season might be changing for you. And it's about acknowledging it and just recognizing it and being like, okay, it's changing. The pink cloud might be, we're an off, we might be coming back down into a bit of reality.

But it doesn't mean it's never gonna get better. It just means that [00:14:00] the season's changing.

Kevin: That goes whether we've, that goes for whether we've been, I think, successful or not too at what we're doing. It could be, oh, hey, I've been going, I've been doing everything I said I'm gonna do for 1, 2, 3 months or whatever. Or, you know what, I haven't been able to get traction.

It can still, that can be, it can be, they can both be a grind or, in, in different ways and similar ways. I always think of the, I know in atomic habits he. He references a quote that says essentially, we desire novelty so much that people who are doing well, look for change just as much as people who are doing poorly.

It's not the exact quote, but it's, it's that we need, it can get mundane, it can get boring, it can get difficult to just continuing to try and do things and that are maybe new like we haven't done before. And [00:15:00] okay, we were excited when we started doing it, maybe or not. And, but after a while it, it it becomes the normal when something becomes like the normal that we just show up for and do, it can have a tendency to also get boring.

And. Sometimes mixing it up in new ways is helpful. And just acknowledging that, though, seeing when, if you have that fatigue setting in, maybe my season of motivation needs to turn into a little bit of season of rest and, that pendulum is gonna swing to the other side. A and we, need to find ways to work so that maybe the swing is just more in the center versus one big swing all the way up here to motivation one big swing all the way up here to rest or whatever it might, whatever you wanna call it.

And start to work in those novel things [00:16:00] into the motivating time and start to work in, rest into those times.

Did you just say that

Emma: back to front? You wanna work motivation into the times of rest and rest into the times of motivation?

Kevin: I

Emma: did.

Kevin: Yeah. But that's, I think that's what, yeah, the that's what I meant, right? Because sometimes we are all or nothing of, know what this I can't, I need to take a break from all of that.

Moti those, and when I say motivation, I'm, I just mean, perhaps, we're feeling the pull or the push perhaps to to do something, to make a change. And we, as we go through that, that can get mundane as well. That can get into a routine. Maybe not, I'm not, I, obviously, I'm not saying that, but the longer I.

The longer timeline you do something, the more it just becomes maybe our normal day to day. And it can get overwhelming. It can get tiring. [00:17:00] It can get boring. All of the above. None of the above. It's it just depends. And then we might overcorrect with a season of rest. I was thinking like, we were just like I'm not doing any of that anymore.

Yeah. When really there's a happy medium, a a balance that needs to be struck. It's just like when we go through stressful times whether it's at work or in our personal life or anything like that, we can let that pressure and stress build and build as we work through something.

Or we can work to add in a little bit of rest here and there. It doesn't have to be, I. Doesn't have to be hour, a two hour nap in the middle of the day. It can maybe be

Emma: sounds delightful, five

Kevin: minute breaks here and there. Yeah. But y here and there, that just relieves a little bit of that stress.

But it's figuring out what you need and when part of the process.

Emma: And I think a huge, I guess this is almost like a life [00:18:00] hack for those of us that are on this journey. We spend so much time, or we're really encouraged, particularly early on, to notice the cravings and figure out what's causing them and what's the underlying emotion or the underlying feeling that's what's going on to cause this craving?

Why do I wanna escape it? Why do I wanna drink right now? And so we spend a lot of time learning to acknowledge, recognize, dig into our feelings a little bit, specifically relating to why do we wanna drink? But then that can, that applies to every aspect of your life. So we have the benefit of, we are training ourselves to listen to our bodies and go oh, I'm really stressed out right now, or, I'm really, I'm feeling really frustrated right now.

Okay but why? What's going on that's causing this frustration or what's going on? Or maybe it's, I feel really disconnected. Maybe it's, I'm not feeling anything right now. What's going on? And you can, maybe dig into okay, I'm just so busy that my brain's disconnected from my body.

Okay, so how do I, what can I do? Do I need to ground myself? Do I need to go for a walk? Do I need to [00:19:00] take a nap? Do you know, we, yeah, we get the benefit of one of the po. Another positive side effect of reducing alcohol is as we are learning the skill of how to listen to our body and go. Like you're saying before, trying to push through.

If you're starting to feel demotivated and your body's heading into this stage of rest, but you're trying to push through, we have the benefit now of going, okay, you know what? I'm gonna listen to my body. My body's going, let's tone it down. Let's peer it back. Let's maybe not add another thing to my schedule, to my calendar.

Yeah. And let's just, let's rest. Let's have a little hedgehog mode moment.

Kevin: Yeah. And that's, it is a learned type of thing that we do and that we need to do because you I'll just say that I don't know. I didn't learn good coping skills growing up. I guess not growing up. [00:20:00] Nobody taught me the Yes.

I'm gonna backtrack just so nobody gets offended, but it's that's not something that's really taught or that's prioritized. Some people do prioritize it, some people do teach, are more knowledgeable about this type of thing, like coping skills and all that.

Whereas, a lot of times we're taught just to, accomp we're accomplishing things, whether it's in school or work and we're just taught to, go and you have to get these things done. And there's al there's always more to do and that's the most important thing.

And we sacrifice ourselves to do. These things which can be a good season to be in where we, push and work and do those types of things. But again, it needs that balance. It needs to, we have to rest. And you alluded to the fact that whenever we start, like you said, I start on this journey with reducing or removing alcohol from our life.

That's some of the [00:21:00] first things we need to learn is, okay, when I feel, when I have this craving what's my body telling me right now? And then what are different ways that I can cope with that better? I'm just repeating what you said there, but just emphasizing the fact that it's like we don't, we have to relearn some of these things or learn some of these things. Because it's been so long since we've used them or we just never knew a good way to handle different Yeah. Things that come our way.

Emma: If you've never really learned or been exhibited, because we learn from appearance and the people around us how to human right.

And if you've never had productive examples given to you of how to navigate your emotions and your feelings, like we, we learn our bodies will learn to do what's most effective. And if we've learned that, if we've experienced that the most effective way to relax happens to be having a drink, then because we've not been shown any other way, then [00:22:00] that's what our body's okay, this, I know this works.

I know this is how I'm going to relax every night after work. But it's not until you learn that there are other ways, there are more productive ways, there are healthier ways. There are. There are even ways so that you don't get to the point of needing to relax every day after work. Like you said, take a five minute break every, what do they say every 20 minutes?

Are you supposed to take a little stretch break or something? I can't remember.

Kevin: I like the RO method much, which is 25 5.

Emma: Yeah,

Kevin: so 25 minutes of doing something. Five minutes of rest. Five minutes, yeah. And then I think every what is it, like every two hours then You're supposed two or three hours.

You're supposed to take a longer break, 25 to 50 minutes, maybe 25 minutes.

Emma: Yeah. And that's designed to help you not get overworked and stressed out so that you don't feel like after work you need to like collapse into a heap and

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: And need big de-stressing tools. But yeah, my point being, [00:23:00] we do our, we are drawn to do what our body knows will work.

From trial and error. And if we know, if, our body knows that alcohol for a long time was the tool that we used to feel better in that moment or to not feel or to

what are all to think that's, those were probably the two main reasons I would drink, was to like wind down, turn off, switch off. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah, and that's diff difficult too when you're, like you said, you come home from work and you're stressed and you, or you finish up your day, whatever it is.

It doesn't have to I say work, but it can be anything. Just a long day doing whatever you come home and you learn that, oh, you know what, I had a beer and that relaxed me. And then it's I am bringing this up. 'cause it's, it can be, it was helpful for me to look back at that and see like where, drinking Maya progressed [00:24:00] into, to different areas or into larger amounts because oh, like you said, my brain was like, Hey, it's we get home from work.

My neural pathway is telling me that we go and grab a beer. So if one is good, two might be better. And it is that day. And so then our brain writes that down, remembers it, and keeps that little factoid for tomorrow and repeat. And that's how it can be easy to, for those types of things, to take hold in, fairly innocent ways like that, that that then can grow into something else.

But it's being aware, being open to challenging what you're doing.

Emma: I love how our brains are simultaneously amazing and stupid at the same time. Like our brains that we can build these new neural pathways. We're so capable of learning things and our brains are just this amazing organ that can do all these amazing things, [00:25:00] but also so stupid.

Oh, one beer felt good, two will feel double good. Whoa. Or one candy is great. Let's have 10.

Kevin: Yeah. The but it's conserving energy, right? It's takes a lot of work to make decisions and think. So all it does all day long. It's optimizing for, I. The easiest way to do something and accomplish the goal that we want.

So once it finds a way, especially in an easy way. Yeah. It's oh, I could pick this up, or I could maybe talk to so and so at work and tell them that he, I can't say no to that project or say, tell them like, I can't, finish this today. I have to wait till tomorrow. Those types of things where, or just, oh, I'm gonna come home from work and go for a walk.

Yeah, I don't feel like you're doing that or, but that's something that may be counterintuitive to the whole I want, I [00:26:00] need, I wanna rest thing, but it can help, just get us into a better state of mind getting some fresh air, getting some, that type of thing. And we don't need to crash or veg out, go into hedgehog mode.

Not that there's anything wrong with hedgehog mode love hedgehog mode. But it's, those are more difficult things that our brain is like, or you can just do this. Yeah. And that it works until it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah.

Emma: Yeah. Totally. And I love that saying it works until it doesn't.

And our brain was, I dunno, doing the best it could with the tools it had at the time. Like it, yeah. That's what it knew would help us relax and help us feel better. So that's what we did, and that's what we needed and that's what our bodies needed. I think like you were mentioning before about how maybe when we're younger, what we're exhibited is go.

Achievement is good. Busyness is good. Awards are good. Like doing good is good. [00:27:00] Doing, being productive is good. But sometime, and I think something, particularly our generation, I guess we didn't perhaps get the permission to rest like we weren't told. Yes, achieving is good and doing lots of things and being busy is good, but also you have permission to listen to your body and go, I need a day, a moment, five minutes to rest, to recover, to just breathe.

We weren't we were never taught that skill. And I think that's a big thing and sometimes we need someone else to tell us that we have permission to do that. Yeah. I find sometimes it's hard to tell yourself to give yourself permission to rest or to take a break and Yeah. Sometimes you definitely do need someone to be like, no you're gonna sit down on the sofa or go for a walk.

I literally had my boss, because I work from home a hundred percent of the time, and probably a year ago I was starting to get really stressed out and I was like, there's just so much work to do. Oh my gosh. And he was like, when was the last time you went outside? And I was like, I don't know. Why are [00:28:00] you asking me this?

And he was like, okay, we're gonna stop this meeting. You are gonna step away from your computer and you're gonna go for a 10 minute walk just around the block. Like just one lap around the block. That's all it takes. Yeah. Just get your eyes outside. And I needed that permission. I needed someone to be like.

You've actually gotta being busy isn't productive right now. Like it's stopped. It's no longer, yeah. No longer productive. But yeah, having someone say you have permission to take a break. Yeah,

Kevin: it

Emma: was huge.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. I had, that is, I don't wanna say, I'm not gonna say similar. I had a example of that recently where I got some bad news related to something a family member was going through.

And right after I talked with them, I had my therapy appointment and I caught on with her and, first of all it was hard, just even getting through telling her, what the new updates were. [00:29:00] And, but then she was like, you need to. Rest today.

You need to not do anything. You need to just be there, take care of yourself. And I'm like, no, but I have this meeting the best this, I have so many meetings today, and I did, I had five meetings internally, community clients, like all that. And I got off. I'm like, okay I'll see what I can do.

We cut it short. I'm like, go, I'll see about that. And then I got off and I was like, looking at my calendar and I'm like I could do this, I could do that. And I just started messaging people and I'm like, I'm sorry I can't meet today. Let's reschedule. Let's do this or let's talk another time.

And I. It was the best possible thing I could do. Because you can't, when things happen and you just try and push through whatever it is, whatever type of stress or whatever it is, you're not going to, you're not gonna be there at your best anyway. And, that was the absolute best [00:30:00] thing I could have ever done.

There's I couldn't even imagine have gone go, actually trying to keep with that schedule that day would've been a shit show.

Emma: I, you would've imploded. I don't, I actually can't imagine how you would still be standing if you had of kept doing what you

Kevin: normally do.

Yeah. And so I sat down on the couch and I watched how the universe works on, I think the se There's a series out there. I was just watching how planets are forwarded shit. I was just zoning out and chilling on the couch with the dog and full on hedgehog mode.

Emma: Beautiful.

Kevin: That's not leaving my brain anytime soon, by the way, hedgehog mode.

Emma: Not leaving your brain anytime soon. No. Yeah, I don't, I keep we call it hedgehog mode, but then. Someone pointed out to me that hedgehog mode can also elicit ideas of you're spiky on the outside. Don't touch me. I'm like, in defensive mode. And I'm like, no, that's not what hedgehog mode is.

So then I was like, maybe it needs to be like kitten mode. When kittens fall asleep and they like curl up in a ball and they're like soft and snugly and

Kevin: I don't know [00:31:00] I've seen some stuff on Instagram with hedgehogs, that little baby hedgehogs that are super fucking

Emma: like

Kevin: the

Emma: yo.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. That's actually what I thought of verse, not the,

Emma: yeah.

Kevin: I think of I guess

Emma: a cartoon hedgehog, like I don't think of an actual hedgehog out in the yard. You didn't say porky guys Hedgehog.

Kevin: Huh?

Emma: Do you have hedgehogs in America?

Kevin: I'm sure somewhere

Emma: like we have them like just roaming around our backyard.

Kevin: They're not prevalent here. I have, I can look up back and I saw a herd of deer, like stampeding my yard day.

Occasionally there's like a flock of like wild turkeys for some reason, which was weird the first time I saw that. Lots of squirrels.

Emma: We don't have squirrels, chipmunks, we don't have raccoons. There's an island with friendly raccoons and I definitely wanna go there and steal a raccoon. But yeah, hedges are like our main road kill in new.

Yeah, they're everywhere. Yeah.

Kevin: Deer here. We have all the deer crossing signs on the roads.

Emma: We have deer. They're more like, more rural, more south island. [00:32:00] We don't have deer in the city. Funny that

Kevin: Ours is like. I'm in suburbs, so like I have a few, a little patch of woods or bush.

Yeah. But would come woods or forest, whatever. But I call 'em the woods out back that that they live in. I just took the dog out yesterday and right at the back of my yard it's all kinds of leaves down and all trees. So it's all brown. And I'm sitting there waiting for her to go and all of a sudden this big deer just stands up and then I look and they were all just chilling in the back there.

And there was like five of 'em just laying there. And my dog's five pounds and she will chase after one if it gets in the yard too close. Oh. Because

Emma: She thinks she can take it on. She thinks

Kevin: she's the shit, but

Emma: she's not.

Kevin: Sorry, I took a bit of a tangent that I tried to it wouldn't be an episode of wearing a tan.

It wasn't a tangent.

Emma: It wasn't a, what do they call it? Side quest, side quests.

Kevin: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Given [00:33:00] yourself permission to rest, giving yourself permission to do anything, really, you don't even have to, it doesn't even have to be rest. What is it that you need and how can you do that? And it's not gonna be something that you can just.

Implement necessarily right away. Oh, I need, we can come up with maybe some ridiculous things that we need.

Emma: I need to meditate for two hours every day and that will make me serene and peaceful. Yeah. I don't have two hours to meditate every day. I also have a DHD, so trying to meditate, sit still hours.

Yeah.

Kevin: Every

Emma: day is not gonna work.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: But I might be able to do three minutes. I might be able to do 60 seconds of breathing and work up to maybe five minutes. But also what I've discovered along this journey is I don't know all the things that I could do because I've never been exposed to them.

And so going on reframing, going on the community meetings and going in the forum and you hear what other people are trying and doing and you're like, huh, I wonder if that would work. And you give it a go and you go, no, that didn't work. [00:34:00] Or you give it a go and you go, wow, that was really cool. Yeah. So you don't know what you don't know.

Kevin: Yeah. Get out there

Emma: and investigate things

Kevin: and I always say, because I'm the worst at this, so I'm not being hypocritical. I'm calling myself out. And I'm not saying that this is easy because I'm the worst at this is if you try something and you don't like it, that doesn't mean you're not going to like it.

That doesn't mean that it's not going, that you can't find a way to incorporate that in or to change it up a little bit. That makes sense for you, that works for you, that you like, whatever you know, and whatever it might be.

Emma: F emissions is a great example of that. Affirmations feel super icky to me.

I am beautiful and capable and, but if you change it around to a bit more kind of badass. I probably can't say the affirmation that's coming to my head because then we'll get an R rating. Yeah. But drop some f-bombs in [00:35:00] there and Yeah. Make it a bit more badass. And I can do that kind of affirmation, but like the universe is opening up for me is

Kevin: yeah.

Emma: Doesn't resonate, doesn't work. But yeah if, initially I thought that's what affirmations were. They were all these kind of beautiful, lovely phrases.

Kevin: Yeah. But it's like that have to versus get to type of thing, like you are beautiful, you are productive, you are, these things, the universe might be opening up for you, but if it doesn't feel right, then that's not gonna matter if you say that.

So how can you rephrase it? I'm not gonna say reframe it, but rephrase it. Or it could be reframing depending on what we're talking about here, but changing it in a way that makes sense for you. I'm the same way. I, one of the. The first simple things that they have you do in the book, tiny Habits, is the Maui Habit, which is teaching you how to create a behavior that you want by anchoring it to something else you already do.

[00:36:00] And, whether that's getting a cup of coffee, brushing my teeth, do whatever, but it's when my feet hit the floor in the morning getting up, I will say that it's going to be a wonderful day, and I'll smile that didn't work for me. It's gonna be because, hey I'm the type of okay, what if I don't believe it?

Then I, you don't have to believe it to say it and have it help you, but. If you're really not feeling it, one of the pieces of advice is I'm gonna have a great day somehow, or I'm gonna have, I'm gonna make this day as good as possible. Somehow I'm going to, show up today. But whatever it is.

And I usually drop, I usually add some F bombs in there as well. And instead of smile, I might, shout out something. Fist bump. Yeah, fist bump myself, high five myself. Just, I can

Emma: imagine your poor wife where you like, get outta bed and you're like, if Yeah, and it's 5:00 AM and she's oh my gosh, give on.

Kevin: Yeah. And that's the thing too, it's first of all, she's up before me every day she that [00:37:00] never, that doesn't happen. The and with things like that, that we try, that's a good example too of I kept forgetting. So when my feet hit the floor,

i, you know, I, the bathroom brush my teeth, go make coffee, sit down. And I'm like, shit, I forgot to do that. So it's picking a different time. Trying a different time. Yeah. And that's what I did. It's okay, after I stand up after my coffee, I'm gonna be like, all right, today's gonna be a good day.

Yeah. Just to, and that's, again, that's not exactly what I say, but but it's making it work for you. You everybody's talking about journaling, like I do the journaling meeting. I talk about that a lot. We talked about gratitude journaling a week ago, and that was, it wasn't about, because oh, write down three things you're grateful for.

It's yeah, that can be okay, but that can get old quick. So what about, actually I have my, I as one of the ideas, I was just like, I grad, I started a gratitude jar I have sitting here and I just write something on a piece of paper each day and throw it in there. My daughter came in the room one day, she's what's [00:38:00] this?

And I didn't answer her until I ripped off a piece of paper, put it down with a pen, and I'm like, write something down you're grateful for, put it in the jar. So she's oh, I do this with something else. I'm like, oh, really? So that's cool. That's cool that she, I'm trying to, I'm trying to teach her some of these things that I'm learning now at yeah, 45.

But she's already, she's picking up on some of 'em herself too, so it's good. Yeah, like gratitude walks, go for a walk and don't put your headphones on, but just, look for something to take a picture of that you're grateful for, that you enjoy or, whatever. It doesn't have to be the thing that someone suggests you can make it your own.

Emma: There's, as you're talking about, getting up in the morning and smiling. There's a rugby player in New Zealand, Damien Mackenzie. Great. All black, great Chiefs player. And he's one of our kickers and he like when he is lining up to kick a penalty or kick a goal, he, gets prepared to, gets in position and he looks at the goal and then he has this smirk and then he looks down at the ball and he [00:39:00] kicks.

And that's part of his whole like, visualization. And if he physically makes his body smile and visualizes himself getting that ball over, he's more likely to. To get the goal get the penalty. It's really cool. He's quite, he's on the eye too, so it's cute watching him smile. But for those, yeah, for if you're not a New Zealander or a rugby fan, yeah.

Check out Damien Mackenzie and I guess, see how it's done. And he did, he, it, it might feel awkward smiling to yourself or giving yourself a high five or fist Thumb. Yeah. In the moment he does that in front of crowds of yeah. 40,000 people. It's, and it's not about the 40,000 people. It's about him and about that moment.

So yeah.

Kevin: And those are like mini little mini celebrations to ourself that help in code was the first word that came to my mind. But help make something that we wanna do a little bit more. Solid to make it stick a little bit more. Because if we're, if we [00:40:00] enjoy something we're doing, if we enjoy a change, we're going to want to do it again.

That makes comment, that's an obvious statement. But sometimes we feel like no pain, no gain, and I have to suck it up and just get through this. Or if I'm gonna do yoga, like everybody's talking about, I'm gonna go to the hardest hot yoga class I can find, versus, you know what, just get on the ground and stretch a little bit and then give yourself a five after.

Yeah. And smile. Smile and say, you know what? That felt good afterwards. And yeah. Yeah, enjoy it. Maybe you're

Emma: in the middle of hedgehog mode and you're on the couch with a book, or I don't know. You're scrolling. Fuck it. Let's be honest, we're scrolling when we're in hedgehog mode you can smile to yourself and be like, I'm, like I'm proud of myself for listening to my body and putting myself in hedgehog mode.

You can, first pump yourself and be like, fuck yeah, I rested today. Yeah. Dammit. I dropped two F-bombs.

Kevin: I think I might slipped, I might have slipped one in, but [00:41:00] I think oh yeah,

Emma: that was two in quick succession. But yeah, it's, it, you don't have to celebrate the big wins of, yay, I kicked the ball over and got a try. It can be like a yay. I listened to my body and I rested and acknowledging that, that season of your life or maybe you are, maybe it's not even rest, maybe it's like frustration or anger or you're just, things are just, you can just be in a shitty phase in your life at a moment.

Shitty season for hopefully not too long. Yeah. But maybe you can acknowledge that and be like, yeah, I am in a shitty season and I'm just gonna let it be shitty and let's ride this shittiness out. And sort of acknowledge that, but claim it and just, and know that it will. It's not gonna be like this forever.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: What's it saying? This too shall pass. This too Shall

Kevin: pass. Yep.

Emma: Yeah. Yep. That's the three bits pass the good bits pass

Kevin: or bad. Yeah. I always say that. Yeah. I always say that because I say it to myself like, good or bad, it will pass.

Emma: Yeah. Enjoy living in the moment.

Kevin: Yeah. [00:42:00] Yeah. And that's the, that can be the most difficult thing, right?

Is to allow ourselves to be in the moment and. And we're just gonna, we're gonna set a record for how many times I say we say hedgehog mode here. And be in the moment. And when you need that don't sit there in, in hedgehog mode and tell everybody and say to yourself like, oh, I should be doing this.

I should be doing that. Okay. You can acknowledge it when you need to. And obviously we're going to say that at sometimes, and we're going to push ourself or beat ourself up for certain things. But when we recognize that, when we think about things a little bit differently as these seasons of slow, gradual change and it's not just all.

And we talked about that before because you can just look at the weather wherever you're at. It doesn't go from winter to spring and there's a clear cutoff and it never I've been, it's days like this when it's [00:43:00] 74 and hot out and I've run, I remember back in high school, I was running track in April, turning the corner on the 300 hurdles, running directly into just full on hail, helping me in the face.

And I was like, this is great. I'm not setting any records today. Absolutely

Emma: cannot imagine you running track or doing hurdles. You're a tall guy, so I dunno why I can't imagine it. I just can't imagine it.

Kevin: I'm not that tall. I'm like five 10.

Emma: Yeah. That's tall for someone that's. A little over five foot.

Kevin: Yeah. Talk to. I'm

Emma: shrinking.

Kevin: I know. I just had my annual checkup and I think last year when I did it and they did, took my height. I always said I was five 10, but I was like a hair under five 11.

I was like, all right, you know what? I'm claiming that this year I was more the measurement that I looked, I'm like, damnit, it's closer to five 10. I have to start saying five 10 again.

Emma: At one point [00:44:00] last year I was going through medical stuff, so I was gonna the hospital quite a lot and they do your height and weight every time you go in.

And I swear for like I'd go on every couple of months and I would lose a centimeter and gain a kilo. And I was like, that is not what we're supposed and.

But it's okay. I think I've leveled out now.

Kevin: There you go. Okay.

Emma: Maybe I've stopped shrinking.

Kevin: Yeah, let's hope.

Emma: I absolutely haven't. You'll see me again soon and I'll, and you'll be like, wow.

Kevin: I just picture my, just kept

Emma: getting smaller.

Kevin: My my little Italian grandma who just kept, she's things more as well.

I don't even know if she was, I don't think she was five foot. She couldn't have been. Maybe yeah, it was right, right around there. But she kept, yeah, definitely losing, although I was younger, so I was getting taller too, so maybe that was a little, the illusion

Emma: funny. Yeah. That's

Kevin: a fun

Emma: optical illusion without

Kevin: grandparents.

Yeah. So [00:45:00] what season are you in right now? How about that? Putting you on the spot?

Emma: I am in a season of.

How do I explain it? Idle mode. Maybe it's not rest, because I'm still, I'm like plotting along. I'm still going, I'm still doing the things, but I'm not currently thriving or pushing myself or yeah, I'm not growing at the moment, but I'm not in hedgehog mode. Like I'm not in hibernation. I'm just one foot in front of the other, which is okay.

And, but, and I don't know what the next season will be. I don't know if this idle mode is preparing me to thrust me forward into motivation mode or if it's preparing me to wind right back into hibernation mode. I've just, like I've said on the podcast before, I've just gone through birthday season with my girls, which is high energy, lots happening.

Had a big project with my day job. That's still, it's wrapping [00:46:00] up now. So that was a lot of energy. My husband's working outta town still, so solo parenting, lots of work, lots of activ, lots of things. So I've gone through that phase of lots of things and now, yeah, I'm an idle, I think idle mode works.

I think that's the right word for it. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I'm heading. It's not like a season where I can be like, oh, I'm winding down for winter, or I'm, yeah, maybe I'm, I dunno. I, it's literally outside, winding down for winter out there. What about you? What mode, what season are you in?

Kevin: I'm more of a hedgehog, but I'm not in full like hedgehog rest mode. I'm coming through, I would say I've been in like a.

A season of, what would you call it? I'm in a season of grief with a loss in the family. But it's been, yeah, so far this year it's been like a heavy focus on that and just getting through [00:47:00] day to day, right? It's getting through the obligations I need to

honor obligations I need to get done. And honoring this grief too, in this space that I need as well. I've been feeling, I don't know if re-engaging is a. A season that I'm going into, that's where my mind is. And I feel a little bit at the moment, like cartoon character that is about to go.

I got my feet spinning, but I'm still staying. I'm in place.

Emma: Like road runner, Mimi.

Kevin: Yeah.

Yes. And I don't know if I'll beat that fast. That's why I was gonna say road runner, and I'm like, I'm not a road runner.

Emma: You just told us you ran track and did hurdles. Yeah,

Kevin: I, and what's hilarious is I have a tattoo on my leg of the roadrunner with his feet going like that that I got because I ran, that was my marathon tattoo for running the, [00:48:00] it was the Akron Roadrunner Marathon, because I think the Roadrunner was the sponsor. It was some internet provider or whatever. So I, I took that and I got that afterwards, as because funny, I just need any, anything I can use as an excuse to get a tattoo.

But yes but I also have a turtle right next to it. So I'm more of a, my turtle feet are spinning and I'm gonna start moving forward. 'cause yeah, I mean there are a lot of my habits, a lot of my things that I like to do, that I want to do, that I like as part of my routine, have had to take a backseat.

So it's hard to then gain that traction. That's why, our feet spin and we don't go anywhere. Essentially I feel ready to move forward. It's just

it's just, yeah. So right now I'm in that point where I need to coach myself and practice what I [00:49:00] know. And that is mostly start small. Let's just start small tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna walk. I'm gonna walk outside. Hopefully it's probably 'cause it's nice out. But just put on my shoes and go for a walk.

Open the.

But if I just put on my shoes and go down, go to the end of the street and back, or if I do something else just to, for my body that isn't, you know that, that's okay too. But how can I show up for the things that I wanna do? Is how I look at it.

Emma: Yeah,

Kevin: just a little bit. Yeah.

Emma: And listen to your body.

If walking to the end of the street feels good, do it. If walking around the neighborhood feels good, do it. Walking five miles, just staying in the living room

Kevin: does go for it.

Emma: Yeah. Staying in the living room and just doing some stretching feels good. Yeah. Listen to that body. It's [00:50:00] important and it's an awesome skill that we get on this journey.

Kevin: I don't like personally always. Relying on that, but to get started with something, I think that's important. And me, and when I say relying on that, just saying oh, I can just walk to the end of the street. That's all I have to do. But over time, the more I do that, the more I just show up, the more that I don't have to worry about only just showing up, like I, motion, creates Yeah.

More motion. So yeah,

I think we've beat that up a little bit, but anything else you wanted to add on this topic?

Emma: No, I think we've covered some great points. Some not great points and some great tangents yeah.

Nailed it.

Kevin: Yeah,

Emma: as per,

Kevin: I think, and I just think that, like you mentioned, that we've mentioned the journey. We mentioned it's not linear. We mentioned all that and just, how can we show up for ourselves, [00:51:00] allow ourselves to, I. Do what we need. And it's just building in some ways to look for it.

Like checking it, checking in with yourself like every Sunday night, be like, what's my week ahead look like? How do I feel right now? How's the last week been like putting things in place like, and again, it doesn't have to be that, change it up, make it yours. But if we don't stop and ask ourself what season we're in, it's gonna be difficult to shift to another one. The season. Yeah. To change. It's a change.

Emma: It's like when your kids like you're getting ready to leave the house and you know it's winter outside and the kids are about to walk out in shorts and a t-shirt and you are like, you've gotta plan for the season, right?

You can't plan to leave the house in shorts and a t-shirt and think that you're gonna have a successful day because you know you're gonna be cold and miserable and grumpy. You've gotta do that for your own season with your own body as well. You've gotta [00:52:00] recognize what season you're in, acknowledge what season you're in, and then, and work with it.

Plan for it.

Kevin: Yep. Yeah. First step is acknowledging or noticing what season you're in. Absolutely. With that what did we'll shift to wrapping this show up and what did you learn this week?

Emma: What did I learn this week? I learned yesterday, and I dunno why this blew my mind, but you can go skiing in California.

There's snow in California, and I know, California's a big place. I like it goes, it's long. I get that. But this person was sharing that they're in Pasadena, which I know is in like LA area. Which for me is like tropical. Pretty much. It's, there's palm trees and I've been to la I've been to Disneyland.

And they were saying, oh yeah, it's like a 70 minute drive to go skiing. And I was like, I what? Yeah. I didn't realize there were mountains so high in that part of California. So I've learned that if you live in [00:53:00] LA you can go skiing quite easily. There's snow. At this time of the year anyway yeah, I only assumed there'd be snow, like maybe at the northern parts of California.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely. And even there, it's maybe not, it may be more inland 'cause I'm thinking of San Francisco is more rain. I don't know if they get, I don't think they get co Oh, we were just talking about this with somebody the other day who lives there. I don't think they get snow.

Emma: Snow at sea level is uncommon.

Kevin: Yeah. So it's all Is that what, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Okay. Is that where, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Inherently yes. Not

Emma: not like, of course it does happen,

Kevin: but yeah. Anyway it did we're talking like we know what

Emma: like weather does. I know we're not gonna,

Kevin: we can move on. You learned that California has snow.

We'll just leave it at that.

Emma: There's snow just out of la. Amazing. Mind blown.

Kevin: An hour and an hour [00:54:00] plus probably west. It's not that

Emma: far. Like I would have to drive

Kevin: four hours to find snow in New Zealand. Oh really? Yeah. I'd have to go down to

Emma: the volcanoes.

I'll type those out for you.

Kevin: Yes, thank you. Can I use that for what I learned this week? Yes.

Emma: I learned there are three volcanoes in New Zealand in the middle of the North island.

Kevin: I learned that Emma can be in snow in four hours.

Emma: You've also learned that Emma does not go to snow in four hours.

Kevin: Yeah,

Emma: I think I've been to snow like twice in my life.

Kevin: Yeah. I've been to snow twice in the last week. Been around snow. Yeah, the I, what did I learn this week? I learned a lot of things. I was sitting there trying to remember all the shit [00:55:00] I learned when I'm, I keep watching that damn how the universe works or whatever it's called. But no, I'm actually learning, I gotta, I got a beginner's cross stitch. That's right. You wanna talk about things that I never thought I'd be doing. Yeah I'm gonna finish something. My mom started so I'm learning how to it's a, I'm learning how to I got a little kit that, you just practice doing all the stitches on it.

Emma: Yeah.

Kevin: And that's where I'm gonna be learning this week, because I'm gonna do this tonight, start this tonight. And we'll see how it goes. But that, that's starting that to do a bigger project.

Emma: Yeah. Learn the basics before you try and tackle a big project.

Kevin: Oh, yeah. And she's, she does that, she used to do that all the time.

And it was I think she figured out it would take her like four years at the pace she was at to finish this one Star Wars cross stitch that she was doing for somebody. And she, and it was like, because it it's involved. And it's fairly sizable too, like the the [00:56:00] material, it's probably like a 24 by, it's not 24 by 36 I, but inches.

Inches that is but it's big. It's yeah, so I, I'm not gonna just jump in on that. I'm gonna practice on a couple of these other things first before I go and completely screw that up.

Emma: There's something like, just such a juxtaposition about cross stitch and Star Wars. Like they just don't

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Emma: That absolutely. It's blew my mind. It's hilarious.

Kevin: She ha she did that one up top there. I have one in my office here already that has a five different characters in detail that she did. It's fairly impressive. It looks like a picture. Yeah. So that's

Emma: so cool.

Kevin: Let's start small first with, that. So

Emma: start with a titty bear or something.

Kevin: Yeah, but that's also gonna be my little unwind, unwinding time. If I'm watching a movie or a show on a weekend, maybe I'll just pull that out and work on that. We'll see. We'll see how I like. I like that. [00:57:00] Awesome. All right thank you all for listening to this week's episode on seasons and tangents and hedgehogs and snow and weather.

Yeah. Thank you all for listening to another episode of the re frameable podcast, brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

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