Feel Free to Unmute Yourself

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​[00:00:00]

Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the reframable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

Emma: I'm Emma Simmons. I'm a ReFramer, Certified Life Coach, and Thrive Coach with ReFrame, and I'm from New Zealand. If you didn't pick that up from my accent, hopefully everyone understands.

Kevin: For the most part, I think. [00:01:00] There's only been,

Emma: what, five words you didn't understand in one sentence so far?

Kevin: Yeah, yes, I did have to stop you there earlier.

We were talking and I'm like, wait a minute because I think you were using what places, right? You were

Emma: yeah,

Kevin: but you said them all together. And I was like, okay, she just slipped into a different language real quick here. It was just places. Subtitles. He wouldn't have helped me. I don't think, yeah, that's one of those.

I let's go back again to what just happened? What did they just say? I'm officially, yeah. I don't know if it's an age thing or if it's just a thing where I'm. All about subtitles, especially lately. So good. Yeah.

Emma: I think, I don't know if this is true, this might be something that I saw on social media, so therefore it is absolutely 100 percent true.

Absolutely. Um, But you're, 100% neurodivergent or ADHD people need or rely on subtitles. Or it makes watching a [00:02:00] show or following a show easier. I don't know if that's true or not. Maybe it is because I also like subtitles, but I also have hearing difficulties a little bit. So like anything with like low voices that are whispery, years ago, husband and I tried to watch House of Cards. He started watching it. He's this is the best show ever. Let's watch it together. It'll be our thing. And I got, I don't know, half an episode in and I was like, I can't hear anything. Cause it's all just like devious and scheming, low voices and whispers.

It's I've got no idea what's going on. I'm done. I'm out.

Kevin: Part of it. I think I do. I've seen that too on social media with the neurodivergent piece of it. It's also Passive aggressive Kevin does that when other people are in the room talking? Oh, yeah, no name shall be mentioned and yeah, whenever the volume up doesn't Clue people in don up anymore.

Yeah. When it doesn't go up anymore. And then the subtitles come out. And actually recently I actually just put my [00:03:00] AirPods in and just 'cause it, we have an Apple tv so it like, oh, you just click to the

Emma: tv?

Kevin: Yeah. If I put my AirPods in, it'll have come up with a thing, just push this button and it'll connect.

And it did. And so it shut off it for everyone else. And I was just listening to it there until they were done with their conversation or whatever. They're like, what? I'm like, no names shall be mentioned, but I would probably get in trouble for that later. But yeah, that was

Emma: or

Kevin: names will be mentioned, whatever.

Emma: Oh, you're just going to throw me under the bus. That's fine. Also. Yeah.

Kevin: Thanks. Yeah. Taking a phone call right there. I'm like, after a couple of seconds, I'm like. We have a

Emma: solution. Yeah,

Kevin: let's turn it up. It doesn't work. Okay.

Emma: It will forever crack me up when I'm hosting a meeting and on Zoom, it has the pop up saying like a participant has set the language, set the subtitle language to English and I'm like, I'm talking

Kevin: English. FYI, [00:04:00] it won't help.

Emma: Yeah, no, the translations are, gets them all wrong, but it's a fun time.

Kevin: Absolutely.

Emma: I'm trying to figure out what Emma's yabbering on about.

Kevin: Yeah. Cause usually I understand you. It's just that I'm like, wait a minute, I got to Google this to see what it means. And New Zealand, when you say this yeah,

Emma: there've been, yeah, there've been many a thing where you're like, do you know what this means?

And I'm like, I know what it means in New Zealand. What does it mean in America? Cause we have different Oh, I was having a great chat. So with my sobriety group, we were talking about putting on a jumper. So in New Zealand this would be a jumper like a sweater or just any kind of like Over, it can be a sweatshirt, it can be a woolen jumper, woolen sweater, it can be a hoodie it's a jumper.

So if you're leaving the house and it's cold out, you'd say to your kids, don't forget your jumper. And they'll run to their bedrooms and they'll grab something to, something warm to go over top. I've learnt that. [00:05:00] A jumper in America is like something females wear, like a skirt, dungarees, overalls on top, skirt on the bottom kind of situation.

Kevin: Connected, right?

Emma: Yeah like overalls or dungarees, but with a skirt on the bottom instead of shorts or pants. And then, A sweater, I believe, is like a knitted, like a woolen, warm top.

Kevin: A wool sweater. A woolen,

Emma: yeah. And then, a sweatshirt is probably like what I'm wearing, like sweatshirt fabric, but without a hood.

And then a hoodie is a sweatshirt with a hood.

We have those distinctions in New Zealand as well, but we just call it a wool jumper. Just, it's cold, get something warm.

Kevin: It's a Top it's a, yeah, something to put something warm on and that's where I'm like, yeah, I don't have to get into specifics. I'm like, it's cold out. Just put something, [00:06:00] get dressed appropriately.

Emma: Yeah. So we cut that down to grab a jumper.

Kevin: Yeah, what is my daughter, was she leaving the house with the other day and I was don't be the old guy be like, you need to put a coat on. But I said, I'm like, oh, yeah, she had shorts on and a sweatshirt and I'm like, just so you know, it's.

It says it feels like zero degrees Fahrenheit outside. So I'm like, just so you know, it's that, and she's fine. And then she went and grabbed something else that was a little bit warmer, but she didn't put it on. She just carried it with her and maybe put it on later. I don't know. Yeah.

Emma: Is it at the bane of parenting existence?

I mean, have you been outside? I know it's warm inside or it's summer here. So we've got the econ on cooling the house down. Like I know it's. Cool insight, and it's lovely, but go outside for a second and see how that feels. Yeah. Because either your kidneys are going to shut down, or you're about to get dehydration from sweating so much.

Kidneys shut down because it's so cold. I don't understand the midriff thing. To [00:07:00] there? Yeah yeah. If you, if you don't keep your kidneys warm, they can start, like, midriffs in the middle of winter is a dumb idea. Put something warm on.

Kevin: Yeah that's an obvious statement, I feel.

Emma: Apparently not to fashion.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: To teenagers.

Kevin: Of course, any medical advice here is not given and

Emma: Absolutely not. Kidneys shutting down,

Kevin: all that, I don't know.

Emma: I, yes, absolutely not medical advice, but I did, I do have kidney problems. It is medical advice to

Kevin: not wear a midriff in the winter though.

That is pretty common sense, but yeah,

Emma: so I had as a teenager, I had really bad kidney issues. And I used to wrap a scarf around my waist so that I was like super warm and the kidney section to keep them warm, to keep them kind of functioning. Um, Yeah. Yeah, so I always looked like, I don't know, I'd eaten too many pies and maybe was slightly pregnant as a teenager because I had so many layers around

Kevin: my tummy.

No, I just have a bunch of scarves [00:08:00] on.

Emma: I'm just keeping warm. I'm just being sensible, guys. We're already so far off topic. It's not even funny.

Kevin: That's what I learned. That's my tidbit for what I learned this week is that in New Zealand, you wear scarves around your midsection.

Yeah. I think I just said earlier, I think I misspoke and said she went out with a midriff on, I'm like, that's not the right. For statement, it was exposed on,

Emma: yeah, out with him off, it's not right at the midriff out,

Kevin: Yeah, I stop caring. Really. I mean, it's like, that whole oh, put a coat on, you're gonna get sick.

That's not how people get sick. But it's just cold, so just put a coat on.

Emma: But it's how people bitch and moan.

Kevin: Yeah,

Emma: If you're going out with your kids and then you go and you're like, no shit. Yeah, it's winter. Yeah

Kevin: This is a learning lesson.

Emma: This is making this experience unpleasant for all of us now.

Thank you.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Thank you child

Kevin: Who's not called me because I looked at the weather beforehand and I dressed appropriately if you would like [00:09:00] me to share said weather report with everyone before we leave, then I can do that. All right. Yeah. We are way off.

Emma: You always make me feel wonderfully old.

Why? We always talk about parenting, being sensible, the weather, I don't know.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Just old people things. And I'm like, man, we're cool. We're cool kids.

Kevin: We're old curmudgeons. No, I'm like, yeah, I don't give a shit if you wear that. Just don't be asking for my sweatshirt or coat.

Emma: Cause I'm going to be an asshole and not give it to you.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Anywho, what are we talking about today, Kev?

Kevin: I believe we're going to talk about unmuting ourselves or speaking up for ourselves, like opening up, right?

Emma: Yeah. It's important. Finding your sober voices is, I'll stop stuttering soon, [00:10:00] is a journey.

It's a process and it's fun. And I think it's not something that many of us anticipated when we started this journey was that we would have a different voice.

Kevin: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of ways to it's not just, I always think about this too. It's not just about. Talking or saying something, talking to somebody, sharing, like we can talk about this too. There's a lot of different ways that we can open up and find like that voice that we've been maybe pushing down or suppressing. I always think of it as me pushing it down, burying it with just to keep it Quiet just to move on, just to, I just got to suck it up and it's fine.

Emma: Yeah, that not having confidence that your maybe it's not a confidence thing, but just not feeling comfortable and that your thoughts, your words, your opinion is worthwhile sharing. That's a real big thing, but yeah, it's not [00:11:00] just having a voice. I can speak really loud. I can shock people with how loud I can be but being loud isn't the point.

It's not about saying words for the sake of saying words, or being loud for the sake of being loud. It's about unmuting yourself and using your voice for sharing things that are important to you, or sharing things that matter to you, or sharing things that You want to discuss that you're curious about.

Kevin: Yeah, we might be struggling with or, and not just being able to open up and maybe it's setting a boundary with somebody. I know we're overused a lot, but it's true. I mean, it's maybe it's speaking up for ourself, saying things that we need or that we want instead of just going with the flow or, staying silent just because it's easier, that might be true in one little circumstance or one little instance, but over time, that [00:12:00] can really wear us out, wear us down.

Emma: Yeah, I can. Yeah.

Kevin: And for me personally I buried that a lot with alcohol, like where it's I sucked it up and I just said I'm fine and I'm just going to keep pushing this down, but that led to me.

I mean, I was thinking it comes out somewhere, like if we don't, if we don't let let out some of that or release some of the pressure, whatever that pressure is, or as a result of we don't release it somehow, it's going to come out somewhere, it's going to get released. It's just, maybe I get angry with somebody or I'm frustrated, or I, reach for alcohol to help me get through the stress of the night or whatever.

And I'm not saying that just by talking about it, everything's easy and hunky dory Just releasing that

Emma: hunky dory. We say hunky dory in New Zealand too. That's okay.

Kevin: Yeah, I just feel like that's an older thing too. You're just talking about aging ourselves like hunky dory. [00:13:00] Anyway yeah.

But yeah,

Emma: it's releasing that pressure cooker, right? Like it's just releasing a little bit of pressure so that it's not. Just chewing and brewing and getting bigger and fermenting and

Kevin: yeah, and a lot of And it cut like we said it comes in different ways Like when you know when you're on reframe you can go to a meeting and you can share you can out loud Talk about it.

You can share in the chat share in the forum and go on social media. I have a therapist that I talk to. You can have a coach, you can have a friend, a loved one, whatever. Like one of the things I do is I journal. Like I write out my thoughts, but that's also an outlet for me too. Like the one I shared with you earlier on this very topic, which I can redo, but it's it's that do

Emma: you want to share it?

Kevin: Yeah, I'll share it. But it's that's like the thing. I just start I have something weighing on me and I start writing and sometimes. Nothing comes from it, but, I [00:14:00] just write out some thoughts on it. I revisit it. I'll save it to share with somebody as appropriate.

Or I'll just dig into it and keep going with it. And that's, I write these things and I just sometimes have fun with it or this way, like writing something like this is where I can sit with it a little bit longer. And I think through things and I see how it's shows up for me.

It's just a way to process it. But yeah, so this, I wrote this this last summer, I think, and yeah. But it just said you can unmute and I, it says go ahead, unmute and share, he says to the next person in line, knowing that all the other magic little boxes will do the same in their due time.

The unmute button is different now that he knows it's true power, but the thought of pressing it before just sent him running to cower. Because it's strong to be silent, everyone believes, it's best to take care of your shit quietly, no matter the pain that it [00:15:00] breeds. If it's strong to be silent, then why is it so easy to do?

To hit that big mute button and stuff my thoughts down with a bottle or two. We can say we're fine, and we're good. But we all know it's a lie. I said it so many times in my life when I really just wanted to cry. But if talking about how I felt wasn't an option, then crying was obviously an even bigger sin.

Because no one cared how I felt or what shape my head and heart were in. At least that's what I believed from the load that I've been shoveled. But I slowly started to see that same head and heart were in deep trouble. And that's where I found true strength, while crying and not being fucking quiet. I found vulnerability and strength much more in alignment.

So I stopped digging when I found a new bottom and got a little closer to the root. That if I truly wanted to unfuck myself, I would have to press unmute.[00:16:00]

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it's

Emma: so it's, yeah, that being able to share and it's so scary. And I totally get why a lot of not a lot of people, but there are people on our meetings that come in as iPhone or zoom user or, and the camera is off and it takes courage to. Raise your hand and get ready to speak and because for so many of us for so long, we weren't speaking what we were feeling and we were burying so much down and hiding it with alcohol and numbing it out with alcohol.

And because we didn't want to, didn't want to feel it. It didn't feel safe to share it. It didn't, we didn't know who we could share it with. We don't know who was going to listen to us. We don't And there's, yeah, so many layers of why we don't talk and then you come to this meet, these meetings with people who are also addressing their relationship with alcohol, whether they're going alcohol free, trying to go alcohol [00:17:00] free, cutting back, curious about cutting back, curious about going alcohol free.

There's so many different so many different Layers to this whole thing but finding that safe environment or that that place where you're going to be listened to or heard, or you feel safe sharing is huge.

So when like people quietly unmute and they come off or they, raise their hand and they come off mute and they're hi this is my first time sharing.

And you can hear that nervousness in their voice and you're just like, yes, come on, let's do this. Like it's so exciting to have that first year and know that someone in our community has found that. That courage or found their voice and felt safe enough or maybe it's not even safety.

Maybe it's like just found that motivation to, that they no longer want to be muted. That they do, that their voice is worth sharing, that their ideas are worth sharing. And sometimes it's just hi I've been coming to [00:18:00] these meetings for a really long time. I just wanted to say hi.

And then they mute again and you're just like, yes, claim your seat. I'm so happy you're here. And I'm so happy that you were able to find your voice and share your voice with us because that's. So freaking awesome. And that takes so much, it can take so much courage. Some people are like, this is my first meeting.

This is the first time I've been here. Love the meetings. This is my opinion on the topic and they're comfortable with it. But yeah it's so different for everyone.

Kevin: Because that wouldn't be me. I mean, I know that that's just, it's just, can be terrifying to, and people might be like, really?

No I, if I joined reframe, I would just be, I would be iPhone and I would be on zoom and I would just have some nondescript name and be just listening. Okay. Maybe occasionally I would write something in the chat, but it would take me, , I would think it would take me time to open up.

[00:19:00] And I'm just thinking like back to when I started, if, if reframe was around when I started and I was going to one of these meetings, that's definitely how I would be until I got comfortable, until I did get comfortable with it and that's the, I think the most important thing is finding that comfort and whether that's in a meeting, whether that's somewhere else, whether that's with those close to you, with your journal, with your, whatever with the therapist, with, I'm trying to think of all the places like, that I unmute myself a little bit and that's yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it does take that, I don't know, like you mentioned, everybody's different. So some people are going to just jump, dive right in and be fine with that. Whether you want to go extrovert, introvert route, or it's just, yeah, with the comfort level and seeing other people do it too. I love it as well.

Like you said, like when someone comes on, it's my [00:20:00] first share. That's awesome.

Emma: So good. I was just reflecting on

the different environments that we share in and pre sobriety and now since being sober, and I know that when I was drinking, I absolutely used alcohol as a social lubricant and I was very loud and very vocal with my besties, with my friends, with my girls my girls My neighbors, not my children, girls, my girlfriends I've shared about that before, we're like, we're thick as thieves, we're ride or dies, and we would get loud, volume loud, and raucous, and we would share everything and then.

When I started the sobriety journey and reducing the alcohol and then eventually cutting back and and digging into reframe and learning more about myself and getting a bit more introspective, I was less loud and vocal with my girlfriends and more reserved, but more. Vocal, not loud [00:21:00] volume wise, but more vocal with reframers and other people in the sobriety community.

Like it was a real transition and a real kind of almost reversal. And it was about, I think for me finding people that connect and that I felt safe with sharing. Not that I don't feel safe with my ride or dies, but, just, yeah, people that get it, I guess. And now I've almost gone, not full circle again, but now I'm much more confident in talking to people that are still drinking and perhaps still drinking heavily.

I'm much more confident. Talking to them about things and sharing thoughts and ideas, but that's been a process like I'm almost two years and now and that's not like I quit drinking alcohol and then a month later, I was like, I can talk to anyone about all of my feelings and this is easy.

Kevin: Yeah, no, I, yeah, it's still agreed.

Let's just put it that way. Yeah. Cause even with. People that I have shared things with, it's, obviously things come up where it's I'm not comfortable, I'm still [00:22:00] figuring I, I probably go inward a lot more just in general. That's just always been my nature, but you know, I do allow things to come out as well.

And that's, it is a process and it is getting comfortable. It's easing into it. It's finding the right. Maybe finding the right way to share my voice and, it's because I, yeah, like I said, there's no one way or right way to do any of this. I don't think everybody should get on a meeting and start sharing right away.

They can, but listening and just taking it in and how, processing that in some way, finding what works, finding those things that I need to share that I need to unmute myself on.

Emma: Finding those. I mean, we all have thoughts and ideas [00:23:00] and stuff that can remain inside thoughts and we don't need to share them, but then there are some thoughts that are worthwhile sharing, some opinions that are worthwhile sharing. So yeah there's definitely like a discerning what is worth, what you want to share, what's, what you need to share.

Ooh, good, deep. What you want to share and what you need to share can be two different things.

Kevin: Absolutely. Yeah.

Emma: I want to talk about how delicious chocolate is for breakfast in the morning. Do I need to? Probably not. I probably need to talk about, boundaries or my stress levels,

my workload, not job workload, but like family life, just everything workload to

Kevin: be fair.

Emma: Just being a parent and lifing for those of you who aren't following along, or actually I don't think I've raised this [00:24:00] before. I think we were talking about this before we started recording. Both of my children have birthdays this week.

They are six years apart, but I managed to birth my children two days apart. So one's 28th of Feb, one's 2nd of March. So we have two, Milestone birthdays this week. We've got a 16 and a 10. So Emma's life is chaos.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Yeah. I probably need to talk about

Kevin: I to say, what do you need?

Emma: What do I need?

Need is my word, we know that. I need, actually, I, I was a good girl. I wrote out what I need to do. I'm looking at it. It's on my, on the wall in my office. My checklist of things that I need to do. I'm also coming to the States in May. I need to get travel visas. I need to get travel insurance. I need to bake cakes.

I need to book the escape room for the birthday party. I've done that. I've booked the escape room. It's okay. I need, yeah. [00:25:00] What do I need? So I wrote a list of what I need because getting it out, finding my voice, getting it out of my head, so it's not just swirling.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Yeah. I guess that's like journaling.

My to do, my journal is a to do list at the moment.

Kevin: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I say. I do the journaling meeting when I host that. It's, because I bring a topic to journal about, but one of the things I say is that, you might not be feeling that topic right now. And if you're not just write about something else, like whether that something else is something.

Deep and meaningful or your grocery list for the weekend or your to do list. Or I always like to throw in the to da list. That's my favorite because whenever I feel like I'm not accomplishing anything or whatever, I'm beating myself up. Like in those moments, I need to step back and take a look at, okay, but you're doing stuff.

What have you done sets that's like what all the things [00:26:00] I've done today or this week or whatever straight amount

Emma: I've said it, so Kevin and I both use the Finch app as like a motivational kind of get shit done kind of help with our ADHD brains. This is not a plug for the Finch app, but it's fun.

It's like a Tamagotchi for yourself. But I end up going through the Finch app and adding tasks that I've already done and be like, tick, yay. And it gives you like sparkle points and you're like, yes. And it feels good being like, I did do that task that I've been putting off for a week. I did do that.

So instead of adding it in and preempting it, although I went through yesterday and added in everything that I need to do. But yeah, sometimes I go through and put my tada list into Finch and get celebrations for myself. Wee!

Kevin: Sparkles. Gems. Full disclosure if this was a Tamagotchi or whatever, I think mine would have perished by now because this month has not been,

Emma: I

Kevin: had a 40, 50 day streak [00:27:00] going and this month has not been kind to my Finch for to my little guy Maxers.

Maxers. But but yeah, that's, yeah. I love that writing it down. Oh, I just did that. Write it down. Check.

Emma: Check. Hey, sparkles momentum. Yeah. Yeah. Build that momentum. Write it down. Sorry. I got us way off topic.

Kevin: Okay. It was the, I don't think it was, I don't know who got us off topic for the record.

I mean, it could have been either of us. But it's the. Finding what works for us and I, I think, and for me, like in the beginning, it was I gone on to telehealth and got a therapist. That was the start of my grief room wasn't around. I was trying to find someplace.

I'm like, I know I need help. I know I need to talk to somebody about it. And that was, yeah, one of the things I read early on is and basically the line from, the my which is why I put it in that [00:28:00] little poem or whatever you want to call it, if I wanted to truly enough myself, that was something I it's are you on your own going to fix this essentially? And it hit me because I was like, no, I'm like, I've tried so long to do this myself and it can, this could, that could be anything that could be for anything. I tried so long to do it myself and without really. Yeah, I'll say it without really any success and so I needed to talk to somebody.

Who that was? I don't know. I was Go ahead.

Emma: I think you can't possibly figure everything out. You don't, you can't possibly know all of your options by yourself. You do need to brainstorm and troubleshoot and throw an idea out to someone or just, verbal diarrhea, what's going on in your head And they can help I don't know, filter, sort, and even as your [00:29:00] verbal diarrhea rings, as you're just getting it out, sometimes you can filter some of your ideas by yourself.

As you're physically saying it, your brain is going, that doesn't make sense, or I don't like that idea, or that doesn't ring true, or, yeah, sometimes just the active. That it's helpful, but then sometimes you actually need someone to be like, Oh, have you considered or what about? Yeah yeah, and then also listening to other people's ideas and thoughts and particularly without When you're addressing your relationship with alcohol, someone goes, oh, I just discovered that I don't know puzzling is really great for when I'm having a craving and you might be like, oh, I haven't done a puzzling in years, maybe I'll

Kevin: yeah,

Emma: you know go get a puzzle from an op shop And give that a crack and you'd never considered it until you hear someone go, this is what I did.

Kevin: It was great.

Cause you're going at it from both sides there, right? It's okay, just joining [00:30:00] the, it's the meetings. It's a forum, it's social media. It's going and looking for other ideas, but how do you get those other ideas? Someone's sharing it. All right. That goes back to what we were talking about.

Kevin: It's just because you're taught, you're sometimes sharing isn't. Just there for you either. I mean, it can like so many times, like it helps you, but how many times do you hear after a share or read it in the chat that thank you so much, that helped, Oh, that's a great idea. I'm going to try that.

And, so it's not just us sharing us. Opening up, I think this is such a huge thing. It's yeah, what was the hashtag I used early on? It was don't man up, open up I use that on social media because, that was the thing.

It's oh, suck it up. No. How about you open up and share because, guess what, we think we're alone a lot more than we are. Yeah, I think we think, I'm the only one going through this, or nobody understands. [00:31:00] Until you say something, and then people come out of the woodwork with oh yeah, me too. Yeah, I felt that way as well.

And, so I, and that helps them be able to open up and share yeah, I'm feeling that way too. And you can talk about it, but it also helps you to be like, oh I'm not the only one. Yeah, I think that's a huge part of this.

Emma: Yeah, some of the best conversations you have or I feel like I've had on this journey is when I Don't know you're not really thinking about it and you go.

Oh, yeah, I don't drink. I'm sober or whatever and someone goes wow Okay, so how did you do it? What do you do? And then you have and so they've obviously been Thinking about it for a while or they're, it's a thing for them, but maybe, but they've never found the space to talk about it.

And then you just make a flippant comment about being sober and they're like, Oh my God, that's so cool. And then, and you have this really cool conversation about [00:32:00] how you're doing it and tips and tricks. And I'm known for being like, all right, so you need to talk it. This is what you're going to put in your talk.

You can go to the little one. Like you're writing this down and go.

Kevin: Yeah. I'm like the opposite. I'm like I like don't want to tell people because I don't want to be the person who, now I'm not saying you are. I'm just saying I like actively try not to be like the person who is you need to do.

No, now I feel like I'm talking shit about what you just said. I'm not, no. I get,

Emma: I don't go out and like

Kevin: I know you don't. Yeah. That's why

Emma: Processize,

Kevin: yeah. Prophesize.

Emma: Is that a word? Anyway?

Kevin: I don't know, get up on your soapbox and yeah, that's what I mean. How about that? Yeah like I know what you meant, but I can't think of the word either.

But, that's like exactly what you said there. Like I, and it can be hard in those situations where, okay, you're with a group of friends or with a group of people and you might be like, yeah, I don't drink. But even getting to that [00:33:00] point. Of speaking up of unmuting or whatever you want to call it, even getting to that point was difficult for me because, just being able to say that took a lot because I was like, I was unsure, right?

So a lot of times we're unsure of what we're doing, therefore we don't want to call attention to ourself, or that type of thing. And taking your time with it and you don't have to do too much too quick. You don't have to you know, immediately tell everybody what you're doing.

You can figure it out too, but it's okay to figure it out. It's okay to What do you do things for yourself? And not worry about what other people's, thoughts and opinions are on it. I think it's important to remember that, like it's, you're doing this for you whatever this is, again, that could be cutting back or quitting drinking.

That could be anything that could be, doing just things for yourself that are positive. I've been in those situations where some, I, when I [00:34:00] did feel comfortable being like, oh yeah, I don't drink or I'm not drinking right now. And you'd have people who are, who you can tell are oh yeah, like I only do this or I only drink this much. And I'm, they're telling me, I'm like, Hey, I'm fine.

You do you. That's

Emma: you.

Kevin: Yeah. And then there's other people who. Like you said, or Oh yeah, how'd you do that? Like you could tell they're a little curious or they circle back around like later in the get together or whatever. And they're like and you could just tell who's paying attention.

And interested in it because I just said that little comment about what I'm doing and it helps them open up.

Emma: Have a question for you. How, okay, painting a picture. We know that alcohol is carcinogenic. It can cause cancer, right? It's not. Good for us. We also know that processed meats, cured meats, can cause cancer and are not good for us, right?

I heard, had a scenario where a friend was in this situation a couple of weeks ago where their friends were [00:35:00] drinking and saying I would rather Drink my carcinogen and drink alcohol then. It wasn't what I rather. It was, like you, I already eat bacon. So I may as well drink alcohol.

Kevin: Wow. Yeah.

Emma: So when that kind of level of argumentative or I guess, when people expressing their opinion that

drinking's not so bad or that they don't see the problem with it. How do you respond to that? Do you respond to that?

Kevin: The first thing that comes to mind is again, it's, I feel like I'm getting older by the second in this podcast. It's like all these little things people say I'm like just two, two wrongs don't make a right.

Like just because I'm doing this doesn't mean. That, I would probably like, okay, I don't know that those two are necessarily connected. But ultimately the way I see it is. People can do whatever they want, right? I mean, nobody's perfect.

There's always an acceptable level of risk that [00:36:00] people are willing to assume. We were talking before about me and one too many sour patch kids lately, like that's not good for me either, but you know, that, that's okay. I'm not, and I'm not comparing. Sour Patch Kids and alcohol or processed meats or whatever you want to call it, or bacon, yeah.

But you know, it is that acceptable level of risk that we all are willing to accept. But, I would just, I would ask, what's the connection there? Or, I would, if pressed it would probably have to be depending on the person that says it too. Because usually I would just let it go. I wouldn't say anything.

But if it was in a conversation that we were having and someone said it and if it was close friends or, I might I'm typically more sarcastic in those situations than anything. I would maybe approach it a little bit lightheartedly and things like that, but in a way like that, that is I don't know.

Let me think

ultimately, cause I've heard, I hear people recently saying isn't alcohol good for you? Isn't [00:37:00] it good for my heart? It's good for my heart. Blah, blah, blah. Red wine is good for your heart. And I would do the same thing.

I would find one little sliver of evidence for something and then. Be like, Hey, it's good for this because of this. Went and ignore all

Emma: the rest

Kevin: of it. Like we've got the antioxidants. I'm like, what else has that in it? Peanuts, blueberries, grapes. I'm like, without the carcinogenic effect of alcohol itself. It's not the red wine, the grapes part of it. It's the alcohol part of it. It's the process it goes through. But that's not a reason to do that. If you want to do that, go for it.

Like I don't care. But in more for me, I feel like that's, I might feel more strongly with comments like that because I made them right. It's almost like that thing of we, it's not about you. It's about me and my [00:38:00] old self, maybe making those or even current self making it for some things. Yeah, it's because I would say that I would find that little, just well, a little bit is good.

And it's but more research has come out and actually, it's, this is what it says, and if I feel like it's a crowd or a person or whatever that I could say that in that they want to hear that, or they're open to that. Yeah, I might say something, but I don't, I weigh it that way.

Is this worth it? Yeah. Do they actually want to know?

Emma: And yeah, assessing that situation practicing the pause is something we talk about a lot, but having a moment to be like, i. Yeah, I'm feeling a certain way about this. I have some thoughts, but I'm going to take a minute to gather them and decide whether I'm going to unmute myself or whether I'm going to just keep that an inside thought.

Are you, is this audience, is [00:39:00] this space open to receiving my thoughts? I think one of the, yeah, best pieces of advice I've probably ever received, I'm pretty sure it was from a a fellow reframer who was on this podcast season one. She said Her favorite response to things is that yeah, that's making me feel a certain way.

I'm not 100 percent sure what that is just yet so I'm just gonna take a minute to I'm just gonna go and process that like yeah This is making me feel a certain way. So I'm just I'm gonna take that away. Yeah, and you don't necessarily have to share your voice, but just acknowledging that there's something going on and you Yeah, you would like the space to think about it, and maybe you go away, maybe you think about that, maybe you go away, you journal about it, maybe you do take it to a group of people that you feel safe discussing it with, or feel comfortable discussing it with, rather than just, I don't know, [00:40:00] someone says something to you that aggravates you, it makes you feel a certain way, and so you find your voice, that the voice that you're using is very loud, rather than meaningful and thoughtful, it's just loud.

Yeah. Like I said before, finding your voice volume is different to substance content.

Kevin: Yes. The process. That volume is different than a substance. Yeah. That delivery. What is that? What's the, how do I want to approach that? But yeah. Yeah. Inserting that pause.

Yeah. Is it worth it for you?

Emma: Does it? Yeah.

Does it need to be said?

Do I want it to be said?

Some people are argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative.

Kevin: I disagree. No, I'm kidding. Sometimes I am. I sometimes I have the I get, I, as soon as you said that, I was like, it's not even that I argue. I want to, I'm Usually when it gets to that point I'm [00:41:00] just trying to figure out what you mean, and I'm curious and I'm confused and I'm questioning. It's not that I'm arguing with you. I'm trying to get to the root of what you're saying because I don't understand.

Anyway I'm. Spewing out my own insecurity here with that.

Emma: Sometimes I think playing devil's advocate, like whether I agree with someone or not, but sometimes being like, okay I'm curious about, where did that come from? Or I'm curious about this word that you used or I'm curious about and playing devil's advocate for the sake of making someone think a bit

harder or dig a little bit deeper and encouraging that kind of that conversation can be pretty fun. I like doing that with reframers on the meetings as well, like asking follow up questions, being like, okay, but you said this word. Yeah. Why did you say this word?

Kevin: Yeah, and knowing when to do that.

Any time I'm talking with somebody and something comes up that I'm curious about or questioning it. It's like I run through the filter of I'm thinking more like in my personal life of how would I react to this? Cause I, I never want [00:42:00] to, I was always one

I was, just have that more defiant type of thing. If you tell me to do something, if you tell me something that's only going to make me want to do it more, if it's something like, oh, you shouldn't do this because you shouldn't have that because it has just, it's the process, meat or bacon or, sugar or alcohol, or it's okay I'm going to be defiant about it.

If you tell me not to do it, then. That makes me want to do it more. So I'm like, I was

Emma: just about to say, if you told me that I can't eat bacon anymore, you'd probably find me wallowing in a vat of bacon fat.

Kevin: Now you're just grossing me out.

Emma: Yeah, that's pretty gross. But yeah, if you, yeah, I'm like, when someone is like, Oh, no, you, that can't be done or you can't do that. Or this is impossible. I'm like,

Kevin: Yeah. Like maybe you shouldn't too. Oh maybe I shouldn't. Okay. That just makes me want to do it more. And that's where I feel like, sharing sometimes in that way, yeah. I might know something or whatever, [00:43:00] but there's been times with friends when I'm like, no, you're wrong. I'm like, I'm not going to let this slide, but it's only because it's like a friend. And I'm like, no, what you just said, I can't let slide, but I wouldn't do that if it was, if it wasn't someone I was close with or whatever, I wouldn't just automatically say that.

Emma: But there's I feel like that's a huge example of the sober confidence that you get when you're not numbing down your thoughts and your feelings and your emotions and you have been able to feel them and you have been able to notice them for so long. You gain this confidence in your thoughts and opinions and you can rely on it.

So you do feel confident enough to be, like, No, I disagree and you're not second guessing yourself and you're not scared of sharing your opinions or sharing your thoughts because you know that it's coming from a place of yeah, that's truly what you feel because you haven't been like facing it, like hazing it or hiding your feelings with alcohol and it's a true feeling and it's a valid feeling.

Yeah, that's sober [00:44:00] confidence to be like. This is my opinion and it is true for me and correct and these are my thoughts and that's okay and being able To share that is definitely like a yeah Fun little thing I found in sobriety.

Having an

opinion

Kevin: And then I think you know now when I'm not drinking or when I was you know going back Even early on whenever I was, you know working on Moderating either way, it's also having the ability to think that and not say it right to to have the wherewithal to be like, you know what, I don't need to.

Do this I guess, controlling my emotions or controlling, whereas if I was drinking more, I would have, yeah, controlling my mute button because if I was drinking more, I might've just been like, more vocal about it and just said, whatever, because it [00:45:00] came to my brain. Whereas now it's I can decide.

Whether to share

Emma: I think I have a heap less anxiety around sharing my thoughts now as well. And I mean, I know, we know that alcohol increases anxiety but I didn't, I have a lot of inside thoughts that become outside thoughts that they're not necessarily offensive. They're just

stupid.

And. Previously, I would have muted them and be like, oh no, you can't say that. No, that's no that's don't let anyone know that you're thinking that. But I guess I have, yeah, less anxiety about sharing my crazy thoughts with people.

Kevin: Letting your inside thoughts become outside thoughts.

I love that.

Emma: Yeah, letting my inside thoughts become outside thoughts. And then, What did I say to someone? I said to a colleague the other day about that I was going on a bear hunt. Bear as in grizzly bear. As in I was going, yeah, grizzly bear hunt. I think we'd [00:46:00] been sharing reels about hugging grizzly bear.

If I saw a grizzly bear in the wild, I'd go and hug it and try and have a snuggle and cuddle up, those kind of memes reels. And yeah, it'd be mentioned in a meeting. I was like, all right, I'm going on a bear hunt. And. Previously, that would have been like, no, that's an inside that's something that you don't say to someone that's a silly thought.

That's not a professional thought or that's not a, that was also a really dumb example of like crazy inside thoughts, but when I'm trying to think of an example, there's nothing coming to me.

Kevin: Yeah. It's usually the case, right?

I could come up with probably a few that you've said, but I probably shouldn't say them here.

Emma: We'll get an R rating.

Although anyone that's listened to the last, the previous episodes of the podcast or come to any of my meetings know exactly what we're talking about.

Kevin: Yes, but I get the thought of being able to. What is it [00:47:00] comfortably share things without worrying about what's this person going to think or

Emma: Yeah, finding it's yeah I don't feel there's no anxiety or fear.

I was gonna say there's no fears. I don't know, just being confident enough within myself to know that's just my personality. It's just who I am. And and there's nothing wrong with that and having confidence and not being scared to, to let that out. Not being yeah, not feeling like I need to mute myself for fear of not being accepted.

Yeah. That was really deep.

Kevin: It was.

Yeah, I mean cuz that's But that's what holds us back a lot of times, right? There's a lot that goes into social anxiety and other, issues that can come up with for us that we might use alcohol for but that's,

is a big part of why we might, reach for a drink to be able to either be comfortable [00:48:00] saying that or be comfortable around people and not say that. So not being quote unquote ourselves, or, whatever that might mean for us.

This topic overall of unmuting yourself or sharing, opening up being, whether you want to say being more vulnerable or whatever what would you say it was like some examples of how you did that as part of this journey that you've been on that had been helpful for you?

Emma: In the beginning of my alcohol free journey, I kept it really private and quiet even from my husband to the point where at one point he thought I was having an affair because I was always on my phone messaging and I was on meetings and I was on calls with my earbuds in. But for some reason I knew this journey was for me and I knew that this, that he doesn't have the same relationship with alcohol that I do, so I knew that this was something that I had to do and I had to address.

But once I realized that, Not opening up [00:49:00] to him and sharing this journey with him was an issue for our marriage or for our relationship. Once I opened up to him and was able to say I'm struggling with this right now, or I'm I need on those days where you're, the evenings were particularly difficult for me, like cooking dinner for the family.

You've just finished a full day of work, got to cook a meal that, your kids aren't going to freaking eat because it's got vegetables in it. And like that whole stressful, like dinner, bedtime scenario, I would manage that with alcohol. So being able to express I struggle being in the kitchen after five o'clock because that's my, that was my drinking time.

So being, so expressing to my husband I need you to cook dinner and I need you to just do it and not ask why necessarily, or just understand that I'm going to put myself to bed. And it's not because I'm avoiding the family or the kids. It's [00:50:00] because I'm avoiding the kitchen, the alcohol the bottles of whatever that I know is still in the kitchen.

So you're learning to communicate those boundaries or communicate that with my husband was really important and difficult and like it's my husband. He's the person who knows me the best and the most in the entire world and I still struggle to communicate that with him. I was able to communicate that kind of stuff with reframers, I guess, because, and other people, people in the sorority community, I guess, because they get it.

They definitely get it a bit more. And when you're in an environment where everyone's being vulnerable and sharing it's much easier.

And I think,

I can't even remember my first share.

I'm trying to. I remember being nervous about it because I was the only person with an accent on the ReFrame meetings. I don't even think I'd seen another someone from the UK on a ReFrame meeting. It was all just people with American accents, all Northern American accents.

[00:51:00] And so I definitely felt like a bit of an outsider.

But just

being able to

share those moments of I'm struggling with dinner time, or I'm struggling with this, or I'm yeah, that was really important to find my voice and speak up like that. I don't think I answered your question at all.

I just talked for five minutes.

Kevin: No, I mean, I think you did. I mean, you did at least somewhat. I mean, it might not have been the, all the things you can think of, but it's like being able to say that to him. Using that example cause I, I think I asked what were some of the ways that you found that, you were able to share and open up that work for you in the beginning.

And that's huge. Like being able to just be like, this is what I need from you. Right now I'll be able to say that because before maybe it was that we didn't say that because I'm just going to do all of those things, but put myself in a position where maybe I'll drink when I don't want to,

Emma: yeah.

And I think there's something about [00:52:00] being able to say, I need you to understand that like I need this don't. I can't explain why, I don't want to explain why, I can't explain why, but I need this to happen. Please just understand that and finding that confidence to be able to do that is really important as well.

Yeah, in the beginning, I, it was supposed to be a thousand hours dry challenge. I mean, it did the thousand hours dry challenge. And whilst that was going on, we still had alcohol in the house and, Husband was, like I said, this is my journey. It's okay. You can still drink. That's fine.

I'm not going to make you give up alcohol. I'm not going to make you remove alcohol from the house. This is my problem, my challenge. And then after a while I was like, you know what? It's really not okay having those bottles of wine up there. And it's really can we just, I'm on struggle street at the moment.

Can we just get rid of it? But yeah and that was it. So being able to find my voice to say, I changed my mind. I, yeah, I have it. [00:53:00] It was okay. Last week is now not okay this week. And I need this. I don't want to explain it. I don't want to talk about it. I just need you to do this. Yeah, I changed my mind.

I changed my opinion. So now we don't have alcohol in the house.

Kevin: I guess because of that moment that was that space where I was in where it was really hard for me and I didn't want that temptation to be there. It just felt too hard. And then I guess, I don't know, once we removed it, we just didn't put it back.

That becomes your new normal or whatever.

Kevin: And you work around that but that's a boundary that you set because, it's, I mean, it's environmental design, right? It's going to be easier for you when you don't have it staring you in the face every day.

Emma: It's funny. We slightly off topic maybe we did.

After the first COVID lockdown, we realized that our kitchen, living, dining area was not conducive to family environments. We had this tiny, pokey little 1950s, [00:54:00] 1960s kind of kitchen where The women are in the kitchen and the door is closed and they're locked out the back kind of situation.

So we did a full kitchen, dining, living renovation, and we've got this beautiful open plan space now. And as we were designing our kitchen, one of the things we were struggling with was like, Oh, but where do we put the wine rack? Like we couldn't fit it in. When you like, we got out the little paper, cut out pieces to try and and measured it all up.

And this is where the pantry goes. This is where the fridge goes. This is where the oven goes. And we were like, okay, but where are we squeezing the wine rack? We spent. Hours trying to squeeze in the right wine rack. And then eventually we were like, it just doesn't fit. It just doesn't fit. We just, and we were like, Oh, we can put the wine, we can have a display or we can, whatever, I don't know what we decided we were going to put it on top.

Anyway, but like how much brain power did we put in to try and fit a wine rack in that now I'm so glad we don't have.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: And when you're like looking at buying houses or shopping for houses and there's like this beautiful wine rack on display or there's a wine fridge and it's Like it's a turn off for me now [00:55:00] when I'm looking at a kitchen.

I'm like, that's a waste of space. What am I going to put in there? Sorry, that was a side tangent

Kevin: It's going to be, what, bottles of Topo Chico and soda water and soda.

Emma: I was actually thinking it could be shoe rack.

Kevin: What? Oh, shoe. I have little feet. I

Emma: It's a good Shrek.

Yeah. Shoe rack.

Kevin: So I was going to ask, what would you put in your wine rack if you did fit that in right now? Yeah, I don't know.

Emma: I don't know. Snacks.

Kevin: I'd probably have just some non alcoholic stuff in there. Yeah, maybe. Yeah.

Emma: I don't know. Yeah, my kids are really good at taking off their shoes and just leaving them in the living area.

It's it's a fun little game of hide and seek that we play.

Kevin: I will not, I don't know where you're planning on putting this wine rack, but I will, I would not eat in your kitchen if you're above the counter wine rack was used for a shoe rack. I'll just say that.

Emma: No, I was thinking like, under bench.

Kevin: Okay, [00:56:00] under. That's a little bit better. There you go. Yeah.

Emma: I don't know. There's got to be some kind of creative way, creative thing to do with a wine rack that's no longer in use. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. That's part of the podcast. Yeah. I'm trying to think of what bottles of stuff I get that I feel like there's something recently that I It wasn't even like a non alcoholic wine or anything.

It was like just some kind of, I'll have to think about it. It's eluding me right now that I've had Oh, I do have like bottles of good, like soda and I say good soda it's the ones that are like, Oh, it's all, it's a cane sugar versus, all that, yeah, that type of stuff where I just got it one time cause I had it, we were out at a like a summer market and they sell alcohol there, but they had this one place that had like different bottles and I had a cream soda and which I was like, okay, I'd never really would have that ever.

And I had it. I'm like, this is. Good. So I went and bought some and yeah, so I always have a few things like that in my fridge. Just [00:57:00] a, and it stays there for a while until I'm like, okay, it's a Saturday night and just hanging out, watching a movie or something like, oh yeah, that looks good.

Emma: Is there, I don't remember doing that with alcohol, but like you, I do it with. Non alcoholic drinks. Like I'll try a drink and be like, this is delicious. I'm buying 10 cases, fill up the car with boxes and boxes of this one drink that I've just decided is the world's greatest gift to my taste buds.

Yeah. I don't remember doing that with alcohol, but yeah, it's like a soda thing. You find it.

Kevin: Yeah. Well, I wanted to circle back real quick before we wrap it up, because what you said about talking to your husband I did the exact same thing. Where I remember going to my wife and being like.

It was like 7 30 at night and it was just I was having a it was a shitty day and I was just done and I'm like, all right, [00:58:00] I don't want to do anything. I just need to stop the day, go to sleep, do something. And I would go to her and I'd be like. Do you need anything right now? Does my daughter need anything right now?

Need help with homework or anything? Are you good? No, we're in for the night or whatever. I'm like, okay, I'm going to bed.

Emma: I'm done.

Kevin: And yeah, I'm done. . I go into bed and I would just like maybe read for a little bit. And then go to sleep early and guess what?

I woke up early the next day. I was more refreshed. But it was just being able to say that instead of trying to stay up for some reason or trying to do more, just being open and being like, do you need me for anything right now? No. Okay. I'm going to tap out for the day because I'm tired.

And I would never say that before. Because I never felt I could or I should stay up and I should whatever, but just being able to say that and then take care of yourself a little bit by okay, getting more rest, right? It's not like I did that every night, [00:59:00] but I was able to do that.

And, same thing with opening up and she would, we're sitting there watching something, at night and she'd get up and go into the kitchen. She'd get you anything? And I would say like my drink of choice and she would be like, Oh, haha, funny. And after a while I told her that, and I would be like.

Just so you know, and this is me like using my voice again, just so you know, when I say that, yeah, I'm stuck in my head, I'm having a craving, I'm thinking about it, I'm like stressed about something, and I, and that's what I want, so once I told her that, and it was almost like code and once I told her that, I was able to, if I said that again, she would stop and be like, I'm like, All right, what else do you need besides that?

What do you need? What's going on? And we would talk a little bit. So it was just finding those ways to open up or, I would share with my therapist things. And, but I would also use my journal app and write things out. If I was [01:00:00] feeling something, I was having a craving, I would go in and dump thoughts into there.

Get curious about it. Talk about that. And sometimes I would be like, This is probably something good that she would want to know. So I would copy and paste and text it to her while we're on the same couch and be like, read that and let me know what you think. But it was just an easier way for me to share because I'm somebody who.

Need to formulate my thoughts and I need to think about it and I'm sitting there typing it out on my phone. So I would send her things that way because it was easier to share it.

And so that's where like finding that way that might work for you can be helpful.

Emma: Yeah, finding a way to unmute. And I like the idea of, yeah, you've written something down in your journal or something and being like, sometimes words are hard. Words are tricky, but like getting them down on paper can be, for some reason, easier.

Like it's a different way of communicating, I guess. [01:01:00] And yeah, and I've done the same thing. I've had absolutely scattered thoughts and I just scribble it all down on a piece of paper and then be like, read this. Yeah because I think

Kevin: it slows you down. I think it slows you down and maybe.

If I would just come out and say it in the moment, it would be more emotional and it might not come out right, or not in a bad way necessarily, but it might not come out right, it might not come across right, it might not or say it in a way that's helpful, whereas if I stopped, paused, slowed down.

Be more intentional with it, then I can look at it. And it just, again, putting in that pause, slowing down. I love that someone I was watching a YouTube video where they were talking about journaling and writing, and they were saying about how and I was at the time I was a lot of times I was typing into my phone into a journal app, but even just that, or writing as well, um, it, it allows your brain to slow down to the speed of your hand [01:02:00] is what they said. And I love that because sometimes my brain I know is going a mile a minute. And it's hard to grab onto some of those thoughts. So forcing it to slow down a bit and get it out onto paper or, a device or whatever can just be helpful to process a little bit slower.

Great tips. Yeah, so

Emma: so what is what have you learned? What have you learned this week? What's

Kevin: your? What have I learned this week, I don't know if I learned this per se, but I've learned that I'm all about the fidget toy or I got these calm strips here like Where I like slap these stickers on everything now I got a pack of them and some of them are supposed to feel like smooth sand.

Some of them are like cobblestone, some of them are like river rock, I'm [01:03:00] like putting them on the back of my phone and on my journals. I'm just. Put in these things everywhere and it's like some of them even have okay, trace each color, breathe deeply, be present all these things, but my little magnetic fidget toy that I just have in my hand constantly anymore.

I'm finding that those help but it's it's funny because I'm like slapping these things on everything , I got it on a key chain, I have it sitting here, I have it on my laptop, on my I can just imagine you like, oh no, we've lost

Emma: Kevin, where is he?

Oh, he's standing next to the fridge stroking the fridge, because you put a sticker on their fridge.

Kevin: I had a moment and I needed to, yeah, it's funny because I like them because it stops me, especially on my phone, whenever I feel it and when I'm sitting there thinking of something I might just pause and I feel it on the back here and

it gives me a moment, it reminds me to breathe. And that's [01:04:00] the reason I like them because they're just reminders for me to okay. Pause, breathe

Emma: I like that. Yeah, we're both similar in that we're very fidgety with our fingers. I do not have any fidgety things, so I just pull the skin off my fingers and it's.

Pretty ick or I'll chew at my fingers like a feral for those of you. I'm so sorry for everyone that was listening that just heard me like pretend to munch my fingers just

Kevin: It looks better on video I was to say I'll post the video of that somewhere that

Emma: I've just me going,

Kevin: just not, yeah,

Emma: I'll also

Kevin: get you some of these toys.

Yeah,

Emma: I've got, yeah, a friend's given me like a what's it called? It's not a stress ball, but it's like a, it's not quite Play Doh, like it's, I can't remember what it's called. It's you can squish it, you can pull it, you can like. Yeah, it's silly putty here. Yeah, it's quite the same.

Kevin: I used to have, I have a Rubik's [01:05:00] cube here and it's loud because so that I got, yeah. So I got these like softer magnetic fidget toys so that I don't make noise when I'm talking to people. You can probably hear clicking occasionally, but yeah, that's,

Emma: I like the, yeah, the tactileness of stroking a sticker and yeah,

Kevin: like I have a banana on my laptop that says when life is bananas, remember to breathe.

And it has a little line that you trace with your finger that says inhale and one that says exhale. So that's what I learned this week that I don't know if I learned it or if I just went overboard with it. Yeah. I discovered that slapping those on everything has been. Helpful. That's awesome.

Helpful reminder. What about you?

Emma: I have learned this week that removing the dog's collar before bed is very helpful for sleeping for me, because our dog sleeps [01:06:00] either around my head or like right next to me with her face on the pillow. And if she's like fidgeting in the night or moving between I swear my dog thinks she's in a throuple with my husband and myself.

If she's moving. Wait,

Kevin: what was that word? A throuple?

Emma: Throuple. Have you not heard that word before? Oh, a

Kevin: throuple, like a, yeah. A couple, like a

Emma: three, three person couple. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. She thinks she's part of the marriage. So she sleeps either in the middle of us in the bed. Absolutely starfishing, or she'll sleep around my head like a halo.

And if she's moving between the two, we just hear her collar jingle jangling with her her name tag and her council tags and stuff, jingle jangling. If you remove your dog's collar before bed, and say, it's time for bed, let's take your clothes off, get necky, and take your collar off and put it on the bedside table, then it's a slightly more conducive sleep because you don't have the jingle jangle all night.

Kevin: You want to hear our life hack with the collar? Our dog's collar is I think it has it stitched in [01:07:00] her name and our numbers stitched into the collar. So there is no tag. I think, don't have to worry about her running anywhere. She's not going anywhere. She doesn't even need the collar on because she doesn't, she's five pounds.

She does not move. And it's funny because you, what you said I think my dog would say that about me. Like he thinks he's part of this marriage. . It's, she thinks it's those two and then I'm just the third. I'm just the human spare human. Yeah, exactly.

Emma: Yeah, I don't know which one of me or my husband is the spare human in my dog's eyes.

She loves us. Equally, hence the throuple. Do you not, in America, do you not have to, so in New Zealand we have to register our dogs with the local council and they have to have a council tag, like a registration tag on the collar at all times. Yeah,

Kevin: we have, yeah, we have to do that, but. Once again, we do that.

She's not going to go anywhere. Like my, my, our old dog her brother [01:08:00] yeah, he was a flight risk. He was fast. She is not going anywhere.

Emma: She knows where dinner comes from.

Kevin: Exactly. She got some bum knees. She's good where she's at. Yeah, and it's funny too, because we started this last year, like letting her, she basically forced us cause she was like five pounds, but she moved like this whole big wooden gate that we had that blocked them off in their area at night and she would move it.

And get out somehow and eventually we let her have rain in the house and she would go there and, but then she would sit there and scratch at our bedroom door eventually. And so now she just sleeps with us. Sometimes I'll wake up and she's small enough where if I'm on the one end of the pillow, sometimes I'll wake up and look over and she's just on my pillow staring at me.

Yeah. Or we have one of those little squish mallows that I used to have underneath my arm, which is now just a bed up here. Even though she has a bed at the bottom of the bed too, like she's living the [01:09:00] dream. Let's just put it that way. Yeah. I feel awkward just even divulging all of that.

'cause I just feel it's like really, I feel like it's a lot. I feel like there are gonna be

Emma: a lot of like

Kevin: dog trainers

Emma: out there that are like, you never let your dog sleep on the bed. That is. And we are like me, we bed. Your

Kevin: dog's a little bit bigger though, right? I mean,

Emma: yeah, she's

Kevin: 12

Emma: kg. So that's one kg is two pounds.

So she's yeah, 25. Pound, I guess. She's a

Kevin: spoodle. The first thing that comes up is 12 kg equals 12, 000 grams. First of all, thanks. Second of all, who needs to know that? 26 pounds, yeah. That's an easy condition.

Emma: She's a bit bigger. She's not a lap dog. She thinks she is, but she is not. So when she's sleeping in the bed between us, it's like having a [01:10:00] toddler.

Kevin: Yeah.

Emma: Being

Kevin: This is like a kitten.

Emma: Oh, we have the cat on the bed too. The cat and the dog don't get along but they both managed to find neutral territory and share the bed with us.

Kevin: As they should.

Emma: Because that's important.

Kevin: All right. So

Emma: listen to us for more sleep hygiene, healthy sleep hygiene hacks.

Kevin: Yes, exactly. Yeah. She interrupts my wife's sleep more than me because again, I'm the spare human and she knows that if she comes over to me, she's not getting shit I'll pet her but I'm not going to keep doing it. Yeah. All should we call it?

Emma: Let's call it. Thanks for another great episode of,

Kevin: yes,

Emma: of going off topic.

Kevin: Thank you for listening this week's episode of going off topic. No, I like that though. Thank you all for listening to this week's episode [01:11:00] of the Reframeable podcast brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol.

It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. And if you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app.

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