Jes Patten - Grateful Growth

Kevin: [00:00:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the reframe app.

My cohost is Steph Prangley. Steph is a nutritional therapy practitioner. She has a virtual private practice called the sober rebellion and is also a thrive coach here at reframe. Today, we talk with Jes Patton. Jes is a wife, mother, and account manager at a brokerage firm living outside Pittsburgh, PA.

She shares with us today about loss and using [00:01:00] substances to cope. A seed was planted in 2020 that made her realize both weed and alcohol We're a major issue for her and she spent the remainder of that year in denial in 2021. She became curious about addressing this in her life, but it wasn't until November of 2021 that she had her final blackout that really scared her into making a change.

She found reframe and some success with both alcohol and marijuana until April, 2022 on vacation. When that voice came back to try it again, and the rollercoaster began again until later in 2022, when she renewed her commitment to being alcohol free.

And this year in 2023 has been successfully alcohol free and marijuana free. So without further ado, let's go talk with Jes.

Steph: Well, welcome to the show, Jes. Thank you so much for joining us on the reframeable podcast.

How's it going?

Jes: You're welcome. Thanks so much for having me. This is fun. Going good.

Steph: Yeah, it's super special when we have people from the community on. So thank you so [00:02:00] much for being here with me and Kevin. Well, to get started, do you just want to tell us? A little bit about your background and what brought you to Reframe.

Jes: Sure. Okay. So let's see. Addiction basically has run in my family. And a seed was planted and about March of 2020. A passive aggressive text I received from my father in law was concerned about my drinking. So like I said, the seed was planted. I got pretty angry at that text and punked him out the next day.

And I said, drinking's not my issue. Weed is, and I'm fine with that and butt out, but that's, like I said, the seed was planted then. So going back. A little bit. This is all right. Kind of all over the place.

Steph: Yeah,

Jes: this is tough because now I like want to take [00:03:00] it like way back. But so basically

2021 is when I downloaded the reframe app. So 2020, the seed was planted 2021. I tried to manage my alcohol use. And I started reading quitlet books, lots of books like quit like a woman and this naked mind and we are the luckiest and the sober diaries. And I think I read a dozen books that year starting towards the end of 2020 into 2021.

Tried to really look and manage the alcohol intake 21 and had five blackouts that I documented. So, the last one was November of 2021. My 40th birthday, we went away to Nemecal and Woodlands, me and five girls and I blacked out. I mean, they give you champagne when you enter and the day drinking begins and completely blacked [00:04:00] out.

And NemoColon's a really expensive place. We're all supposed to be sharing beds, in the suite. And I woke up in the morning and I go, How did I get my own bed? And they're like, You don't remember? And I'm like, No. And they tell me that I crashed right when we got back to the room. And I apparently puked all over myself in the bed.

Could have choked and died. No recollection whatsoever of this. They had to have housekeeping come in, completely change the bedding. They showered me. They changed me. They put me back to bed. No recollection at all of any of this. This was pretty much the worst blackout I've ever had. And like I said, this was the fifth one.

But the combination of the shame and the embarrassment and I really could have died. You hear people choking on their vomit, like [00:05:00] it was, I think that combination that hits you that hit me. So I was, it takes me a really long time to learn a lesson. So I downloaded the reframe app and I stopped drinking November 28th of 2021.

So as I mentioned before a weed is a big part of my story. So, I let myself Have weed for the next month. And then I quit that December 28th of 21 and I went pretty good I went about a hundred and twenty days and during this time I was on reframe at least one meeting a day I was doing the daily tools the daily tasks and that sort of thing I didn't ever get the community I know there's like a lot of community aspects of that, but I'm just like I'd say I'm kind of on my own here. So, probably should have done that a little bit differently. Definitely should have reached out in the community a little bit more. So I went 120 days and. We went to Disney in [00:06:00] April of 22, and I was like, it's when your tricky brain is you don't have a problem.

And you can have a couple of beers at the pool with your husband, and you got this. And sure enough, and it's funny, I read a great quote. One time and it was like, the worst thing is an AA type brain that's filled with all this information about how bad the substance is and then a body full of substances, right?

Like that combination is so bad. And it's true. All of a sudden I'm at the pool and I have A couple of beers in me and I'm like, you're just very aware at this. I was very aware at this point, cause I've done so much of that educating myself and I'm like, this isn't fun anymore. I'm like lethargic and I don't even know what to do with the buzz anymore.

It's weird. So I slept it off at the pool and got on with our. Day and our [00:07:00] vacation and that sort of thing, but it opened, it opened up the door again, and that's part of my journey. It's an, I know it's a lot of parts, a lot, parts of a lot of people's journey. It's not linear, And so the rest of 2021, or I'm sorry, 2022, yeah, was the rollercoaster of trying it.

It was the most successful year ever sobriety wise. So I suck at giving myself, looking back and giving myself credit. It was amazing. It was, and lots of data points, right? New, that's lots of data points and, but again, in the tracking, you should see my spreadsheet. I mean, I have, like May, three drinking days, five smoking days, like I tracked like crazy.

And then November 28th of 22 came around again. And it's true what they say, that it gets really old managing this. And I am ready at this point. [00:08:00] So I quit again and here we are. It's been almost one freaking year of no drinks under my belt. I can't even believe this. And it's been, it's like day 170 weed.

So, just going back a little bit, just the near future. So yeah, weed. Weed was a huge issue, bigger like I said, bigger than the, the drinks in my head at first. And there's like reasons for that. So in 2020 and 2021, I went to lots of therapy and I learned some things.

So my mom died at 43 of lung cancer and she was a huge weed smoker and cigarettes too. So, but. That made me feel like her and it made me feel closer to her and that is freaking whacked out shit But that is what therapy's for I used these [00:09:00] substances to cope I lost her it'll be 20 years in February.

So I was 23 at the time. I'm about to be 43, the age she died. Like it's incredible. It's just part of my story. It is. I used these substances to cope for whatever reason for these 20 years. And for some reason, alcohol came quicker, came easier to quit for me this year. And we'd hung on until May.

And I, it's true. You feel like so desperate and in such despair and so hopeless. And I finally called Gateway just a local rehab center around here. And. They got me in for IOP intensive outpatient therapy. Right. So in the meantime, I have a new job with a new company. And so I went out on leave again this summer and I did 30 visits over three months focused on weed.

They say the [00:10:00] definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and expecting different results. So I tried something different. I got to get out there. I do love that reframe that you can talk and communicate and we all have the drinks in common and that's, the ground, but I didn't feel like I was in the right room when it came to the marijuana.

Right. So I don't know, again, if it was the combination of all these data points, but something's different now. I feel like I've learned my lesson weed wise. I don't think. That it's serving me anymore. I truly say, Oh, I hang on to this one so much. I love the good quotes. These substances was um, magical and then medicinal and then freaking misery for me.

That's exactly. where they took me. We did a lot of great like exercises and IOP. I mean, when I went in, I had so much [00:11:00] education behind me. I felt like I could have taught the class, but I did try to make the most out of it. We wrote, there was a letter to our addiction and I read it on one of the reframe meetings.

And a letter from our addiction and then my letter to my addiction. And that was a freaking release. I mean, you, I can bring you to tears with this letter, and we sent them up. And then we painted our addiction and mine looked very, Oh, I should go get it. It was very much like a just a merry go round, like a freaking nonstop chaotic circle.

But I did throw some pink in there and that was me trying to break through. So it was just so cool to do those exercises. So, so yeah, I highly recommend I mean, you've got to, it's hard work. You got to do the work. But it's been years now. Yeah, so highly recommend the reframe meetings.

I did go to a couple of AA meetings recently. [00:12:00] I don't think AA is for me. I don't know. I couldn't really tell you why it might be a little bit because of the marijuana thing too. But Reframe is where it's at. Like they are like my little, we call them the ReFam. Like it's just such a safe place, safe space.

And I love that it's hundreds of people from all around the world gathered. All different ages, it's just great. Thank God for ReFrame and M. A. too. I joined Marijuana's Anonymous and have joined some of those meetings virtually too. Cause there's nothing here local to join in person.

Yeah, so that was a lot. So

Steph: It always is. Yeah. I

Jes: Hopefully it made sense and flowed.

Steph: It made sense. I mean, I had a question after like your first sentence.

Cause I was like, what happened in March of 2020? Was there a big event that made your father in law like send that [00:13:00] text to you

Jes: Good question. But no I mean, and he actually lives in a it's like an hour and a half away. We don't see much of him at all. So I'm thinking it was he is.

A Vietnam vet, an alcoholic, and he said in his text that he saw something, a part of him in me. So, so, no, I mean, I mean, I'm thinking of the latest holiday. That's when he's talking about or I'm thinking back to like my Facebook posts during COVID. And I'd have like peanut butter whiskey on ice.

Like maybe it was that, but yeah, no real big thing that he is aware of. Yeah, I

Steph: mean, I feel like now that I have that education, I would be able to see these little signs too that don't, that weren't like your blackout vomit experience, like that is obviously super [00:14:00] scary and really alarming and like an obvious red, more obvious red flag.

But I mean, now that I know what I know, I feel like I could. If I could have reached out to a younger Steph when she started showing these signs earlier on, that's probably all, all it was.

Jes: Oh, yeah. And, I have that, too. I'm kicking myself ugh, if I could have just learned this at 30, but you can't, you can't. We can't change our story. And, what I love, too, is, hearing the, they're 65 year old reframers, and they're just getting it. And so then I'm like, okay I'm, I'm doing good. Just try to get it now. And learn the lesson now. So, yeah,

Kevin: yeah. I know if 44 year old me went back in time and talked to 34 year old me, I'd be like, all right, old man, just leave me alone.

I'm fine. I'm good. I got this. Yeah. I'd be like, all right. Figure it out. You'll figure it out one way or another. But yeah, that's true. I mean, I think I don't know. I think we kind of have to go through some [00:15:00] of those. It's good that, and I understand like the anger you said you had at that, but you know, like you said, it planted that seed, right?

It was that thing like, huh. Okay. nOt going to change, but at least, it's in there now.

Jes: Yeah, it was that whole grieving process, that started with anger and then a little, a lot of denial and then freaking acceptance. Yeah. Which is tough. Like it took me a long time to accept it because I have to change my entire world.

That's what me and my husband do. That's what me and my friends do. It's Oh my gosh, how in the world? One day at a time. That's how, one step at a time. But it hasn't been easy. And as I mentioned, I, and I have to, I was trying to be like careful what to say on here because I imagine I'm going to want to share this and things.

And I don't want to throw my husband under the bus, but I feel I am on an [00:16:00] island. I don't have his support whatsoever. I think he does not want this to be our story. And, then there's a part of me that's man, I am here to teach him a lesson here. There's it's a part of our story, bro.

And then I'm also like, how many people statistically make it through this couples, cause that's really tough that way too. The number one thing they ask is, do you have support? And it's I do, I have four girlfriends that we've been talking on that Marco Polo app since COVID every single day thank God for them.

But and I've been saying that, but I've just realized recently that it's very important for me to have my husband's support, and so that's just, we're going to start couples counseling and I'm going to actually go back to therapy too, because. I realized I actually had a friend, trigger warning commit suicide, like about a [00:17:00] month ago.

And she was the typical local mom, three kids. You saw her at every event, put together. Everything on Facebook looks perfect, completely happy as hell and has everything you could possibly need or want.

It's just, it was, it brought up a lot for me. Like I, when I was struggling mental health wise and when I started questioning the drinking, I was never in that boat and I hate to even say that I was never in her same boat, like that scary, but I am an empath. Empath. And I can see how someone can be so overwhelmed and not heard.

And just want to leave like it's, and that scares me, and I'm very [00:18:00] vocal. I'm very vocal about it. And yeah, so that, that just came to fruition to me. And what really sucked too was I was very vocal on my social media because I hate the stigma around the alcohol use and the mental health and all of it.

And in the beginning I was very vocal and she reached out to me in January and a very dark place. And. Again, I don't think there's anything I could have done. Like I'm not, kicking myself for that. I wish, she would have said more, but people in those situations don't, they don't.

Most, I guess don't. So that's just, it's just really hard to to swallow. But yeah, so that, that's very recent and that brought up a lot for me too. And it's, it was with my husband, it was a lot of my closest friends. Like the one drove over here the one day making sure I was okay. And my husband's going, why, what are you talking [00:19:00] about?

And it's wake up, like you are living in this house with her. How don't you see this? And and this is just to say so can you imagine what that feels like mentally? To be, feeling that lonely and then having this Struggle of trying to quit, even though it's great.

It's like a superpower to be sober. But I, it's just, I wish I was, I don't know, just more supported around here with it. He's just can we just go back to our normal life? And I'm like, Oh my God. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. Let's talk about what was normal. Let's go through that.

Jes: Right. Right.

Right. I mean, how quickly he forgets. I was, okay. So basically, it became, we were, when we got together, we liked to smoke and drink together and it was binge drinking on Fridays and Saturday nights. Right. Then [00:20:00] it became Sunday fun day and then thirsty Thursday crept in there. So I'm only not drinking Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and that's if you're lucky.

I mean, if there was one work event, if there was one dinner, that's out the window. I was never. The type that ever didn't drink. Like I had, I started watching it, and I had a couple of friends, couples, and they would come over and she's Oh, he's drinking tonight. So I'm not like that never happened with us.

I mean, there was no way I wasn't drinking if there were drinks involved ever. And what's really sad. And again, to reflect. I'm so lucky. I never heard anyone, I'm so lucky. It didn't take a rock bottom, like a DUI, a prison or a prison sentence. Like I would be in Pittsburgh, which is 35 miles away from where I live.

And have a happy hour and just drive on home. I would get behind the wheel [00:21:00] without thinking twice. And I am so, ashamed and embarrassed at that right now. But it's that's, to be honest, that's what it was. It's so, and I, I bounced off a car after a golf outing one time. And I mean, there was some.

It was happened to be like this maintenance guy who didn't care about his truck whatsoever and was like, just go. But I'm like, Oh my gosh, like there could have been, there were plenty of close calls and very lucky, and the weed thing, I was a very high functioning like when my husband would smoke, it would be late on a Friday or Saturday night and he was not leaving the house because he was high and he wasn't seeing anybody or doing anything.

And that's how most people get, I think, impaired like that. I will smoke and clean the house. I will smoke and go to work. I will smoke and do it all. So, and then, so then we would put rules around that, this is just over the last [00:22:00] we'll say 10 years ago when we talked about my use and me quitting and that sort of thing, we would put rules around it and I would say you keep it and you hide it and we only do this on the weekends and you put it away and he would leave for work and I was working from home.

Then I would be a police dog trying to find this. And I would, I, you, your brain just wants it, wants to scratch that itch. So I would find it and then I would smoke it. And then I'm like, Oh shit, now I'm high. And he would come home from work and he'd be like, you're high. And I'm like, no, I'm not.

Now I'm lying about it. Oh my God. Oh, so bad. It was so bad. So bad. And does he not remember that? Would you rather have that or this? Because like I said I'm sure it's not easy for him. I'm sure I've been a little bit moody and that sort of thing going [00:23:00] through this journey.

Right? You have that. It is surely better than that. Right?

Steph: Yeah. And being scared that you might die, yeah,

Jes: Yeah, right, exactly. Yeah.

Kevin: And yeah, I was curious, we talked, I mean, you mentioned how Yeah. Like the incident with, in Nemecolin and, you're, what, roughly 330 ish days alcohol free, I think 170 ish days weed free.

Yeah, you know what was like the push for weed because obviously that is that's a big thing that happened with alcohol and other things that followed it I knew

Jes: but when I would smoke that it was not Good. I knew the hold that it had on me and the itch that I'd want to scratch.

Right. [00:24:00] I actually felt like I was like trying to give myself lung cancer, like my mom wow weird. Like just, I couldn't smoke enough. It was just and I am very. My friends will tell you, you're the most aware person I've ever met in my life. Like I'm almost too aware, right? And I just, I was very aware and I, what I didn't like too.

And I was very vocal. Like when I would say to my family, my sister is a huge trigger. We'd get together and do that. Right. And I would say, I have an issue and everyone's go get your card. I'm like, go get my card, my weed card. It's so funny how we become mirrors, right? And nobody wants to go there.

And even, and everyone, nobody wants to tell or agree that you have an issue or whatever. I mean, it was just, that was [00:25:00] very surprising to me that. Everyone was like in denial for me. I'm like, I am telling you I have an issue. And they were like,

Kevin: no you do it the same way we do. Therefore you can't have an issue because you have an issue.

That means I have an issue. Yeah. Same thing with alcohol too. Yeah.

Jes: I tried to quit. Oh my God. So I remember there was a time right when I got like my first career at a college. I was probably like halfway through. And I wanted to quit for some reason. I don't remember exactly why, but I was compelled to quit.

And that's when I realized it was an issue. Looking back now. Because the withdrawal, the no sleeping, no appetite, hot and cold, skin crawling, headaches. Oh my god, for 10 days. It was so [00:26:00] bad and they, I've done research and stuff and I guess 9 percent of people like get addicted to weed like that, that, that is I would, that's like heroin addiction to me, those withdrawal, you would have never thought that's weed addiction and it was, that was in 2007.

So I've. Kind of known and maybe it was just in the back of my head more so, or in the front, I was okay with it at times and then knew it was an issue at times. But also a very good point is, and I hope I'm going to articulate this right, but I am so thankful that. Women have evolved and become accepted as we are, right?

We're almost like equal in the workplace and it's amazing, right? Okay, but nobody's figured out the logistics of all of the other shit that comes along with this. So, like, when I Okay. Graduated college, got a full time career. Okay. Get married, have two children. [00:27:00] Okay. Household. Okay. Oh, I need something to cope.

This is way too much. Then you add the phones, the comparison of the social media, the information. Of the news overload. Oh my God. Are you kidding me? You need something to lean on is what I was telling myself. I need something to lean on. But honestly, to these days, I'm just really trying to put in coping skills and learn myself and do It's so funny when I heard self care years ago when I was doing the therapy and the self care.

I was getting massages and I was floating and I was getting facials and I was taking my walks and I was journaling and I was doing all the external things and I've realized now it took me a couple of years that self care is being able to look inside at yourself. [00:28:00] And be able to sit with yourself and be comfortable with yourself.

And so what does that take? So you have to do the work. What, and how, how do you feel today and what is it going to take for you today? And like that sort of thing, it's. It's tough and just dialing way back. I mean, I'm trying to like one thing at a time. As you can tell, I bite off a lot more than I can chew typically.

I'm really trying to stay the heck off the phones. I think I'm going to get off of Facebook for 2024. Just give me a year. Really. I am addicted to my phone. I need to help. I can't walk outside without my phone. I can't be the leaves and the wind and the that's, and I know that's where we need to be.

And I know that will help my mind. So sorry, just kind of went off on a tangent there, but

Steph: no, that's okay. Because the women's meeting I hosted on Saturday, we [00:29:00] talked about kind of what you were talking about with how. Like things that make it increasingly difficult for women that men may or may not realize.

And just and how much pressure we put on ourselves, that comparison trap we're now like working full time and raising kids and yeah, like leaders in the workplace. But then a lot of us never got that equal division of responsibility at home. So we have that second shift that we always talk about.

And then, when you list all of that stuff off, it's it's no wonder that we need to lean on something, but something we should be leaning on is our tribe, our community, like the whole, it takes a village thing, but we're like, we're in the States and it's so hyper individualistic where you're a freaking failure.

If you ask for help to like. If you can't take care of your home, like I hire housekeepers, I don't even have kids. It's just one of the gifts I give myself in sobriety [00:30:00] because. It's something I don't want to take care of. And it's just that's the self care, right? Unloading these things that, so we can set ourselves up for like mental, emotional, physical success in the future, I think is what you're getting at with the therapy, with

Jes: everything.

Amazing. Yes. Yes. Nailed it. Yes. Yeah. And just Yeah, and feeling heard. And when you don't feel heard and then it's like, Oh, I'm weak because I can't do all this. And that feels really lonely and dark. And, I don't know. But yeah, you nailed it. Yep. I

Steph: mean, it's nothing we can solve overnight, except to raise awareness of that.

And, make sure that we're supporting other people in the community. Like you talked about that woman who you know. Who took her own life and it's she probably felt like a massive failure somehow and just obviously wanted the pain to end. But how can we lift each other up? [00:31:00] Regardless of gender, it's not just like a women unite thing, right?

Like we need the dudes. Yeah. We need everyone. And I don't know, it was really like, I mean, I get it. I get it. Like that perfectionism it's easier to self sabotage and part of the way we self sabotage is through using these substances, right?

Jes: Yeah. Yeah. And just, shutting off some of the noise.

All the noise.

Kevin: But then, then you go and say, well. I have to work on this. I can't keep drinking like this, or I can't keep, smoking like this or whatever, and then it's like, Oh, well, you can't control it or you're weak or you're, there's this stigma surrounding that too, where, okay, I'm trying to do the thing I'm trying to do the proper self care, taking care of myself, not like the luxury kind of stuff, but actually taking care of myself and then.

You're hit from that end too. And [00:32:00] it's bullshit, right? I mean, just like the comparison, just all that stuff. It's we're all, when can we just all admit for, for a lot of these things that, can we just all admit that, let's take it easy on comparison. Let's take it easy.

No, nobody's perfect. Nobody's, this picture perfect thing or that we see on social media or whatever, and, there's nothing wrong with. Addressing how alcohol or bead or anything is showing up, because it's just taking care of ourself. We glorify the, I'll always throw in mommy wine culture, right.

But, any of the drinking cultures that you want to throw in there you and that's just, that's perpetuating that oh, you just need this, you just needed some wine to get through this.

Jes: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a great point too. You just reminded me too, because oh, and it sucks to look back at, but it's it's amazing how a person can grow and change and be a completely different [00:33:00] person in a matter of a couple of years.

Like I was that mommy wine culture. I had the Rose all day shirt. I was the one at the parties saying, why aren't you drinking? Astonished. Like I, it was writing in a work email. Is it thirsty in here? Is it time yet? I, it's so crazy to look back and how ignorant I was, like, it's, but it's also beautiful, right?

To be able to learn and grow from that and be able to change, but yeah, it's in just a matter of, two, three years, man. Totally different way of seeing things. It's amazing.

Kevin: yEah. Cause you were saying before about the whenever you're talking about the days and how alcohol crept in and you're like Monday through Wednesday, pretty much wasn't it in my head.

I was like whiskey Wednesday and [00:34:00] I was the whiskey guy and then the, and the craft beers and all of that. I mean, Yeah, but obviously no more and I'm happier for it. And that's, what's most important, right? Not the fact that I don't know, knew every single new beer or whiskey that came out ever that wasn't helpful in the long run.

Jes: Right.

Steph: Yeah. Amazing. Just a strong testament to, to like you being the ultimate mommy wine culture. I don't know, advertisement and then where you are now, it just shows that. When you do put in this effort and you put in a lot of effort, right? It's not just reframe. It was the ups and downs. It was, blackout experiences.

It was IOP, the slips everything. But now look at you, you're interviewing on the reframe podcast. You're putting your story out there into the community.

Um, Sharing really vulnerably you [00:35:00] shared I think it was my meeting that you shared your letter your letter to your addiction. Cause I didn't know who you were. And then I'm like, Oh my God, that's Jess. And then everyone was like sobbing in the comments. That was awesome. But I want to hear a little bit more about you saying that you feel like you're totally on your own.

And I understand that your husband isn't supportive. But did you just not like connect with people in the community? Did you not like. Put yourself out there and I mean, do you have any thoughts or recommendations or would you do it differently or are you doing it differently now?

Jes: Yeah.

So, basically the only people that I feel connected to on this sobriety journey are the reframers. And I feel like I manage a lot of relationships again with the work and the kids and all this, and then I have a lot of friendships and things. Which by the way, they say, are gonna [00:36:00] rise and fall as this journey evolves.

So I'm kind of in the midst of that, but yes, I would definitely, and I've been meaning to, too. There's a lot of people that I have, you see yourself in, oh my God, in so many people. And I say it on every share that I share. You guys have no idea how much I think about you. And Just I, I don't talk about anyone's specific journey, but I talk about the camaraderie that I found through this app.

And I hate, cause I, there's men too that I love and I'm like, oh my God, these men, why is that? Why? I can't believe I'm like, I'm just amazed that they can share like this and be so vulnerable. BuT yeah, so I've been meaning to, get hooked up and one or one or two of these Instagram groups or like that sort of thing for more support even like texting, some phone numbers, that sort of thing. I've been feeling very strong. I [00:37:00] couldn't, I can't tell you, I haven't been triggered and thought of relapsing but you know, I'm also not stupid and there's going to come a day, so. Definitely need to be prepared and have a plan. I loved Prakruti's meeting today. She was like, we're sober or, not drinking or, but it's not by magic.

There's a lot of, work and planning and going into this. So yeah, that's definitely something I would do differently. And it's, the girls I talked about, my friends on the Marco Polo app, they've been with me this whole road, but they still don't get it. I think one gets it a little bit more than the other because her son is struggling.

He's 23 and she worries about him a lot. And then the other one is still blacking out and. The other one can just have a couple of glasses. And I'm like, how does that happen? So it's just so funny to have all these different uh, [00:38:00]variations of different friends and yeah, like my neighbor actually is amazing and she is sober and she's freaking 28 years old.

And I'm like, that's. lucky you are to like this under your belt by then. And so I lean on her a lot. I did forget about her. I love her. And we do lots of walks and stuff like that. And then I'm on a couple of like local sober moms groups. And it's funny, one local mom that I know of in the area did reach out to me and she was struggling.

So it's like I'm starting, but it just feels like everyone's still doing what I was doing. And I know that's not the case. I know there's so many people out there. And there's these dry bars popping up and that sort of thing. Things that I kind of want to go explore. But yeah, it's My, my whole family, I come from addiction.

I just went up to Erie this past weekend. My dad has a pumpkin carving every year and beers are [00:39:00] flowing, and it's just what we do. They do, just not me anymore, and all I can hope I'm not I feel like I, tend to want to share my knowledge and like how amazing this is.

But I also know that people don't want to see it and they aren't ready. And shut your mouth until they've talked to you about it. So that's kind of how I've been dealing.

Steph: Yeah. That's the hardest

Kevin: part. Yeah, it's mostly by example too, right? At that point, it's like, all I can do is, Hey, if you don't give me shit, I'm going to do my thing.

You do your thing. And then they know what you're doing. And it's funny how many people can circle back. And,

Jes: So true. So true, Kevin. Hey, check this out. Look at my fridge. I have all of these AF beers. My little sister is, I swear she It's up to me and she is going through this really rough divorce and leaning on so many substances and I'm just, I have [00:40:00] been vocal and saying you need to just get off that.

It's amazing how much more clear things become and less dramatic. Like you still have your shit and you still have your problems. But you just know you need a divorce from him. It's not even that muddy. You need a freaking, you know what I mean? It's just like everything becomes more clear and but again, I know it's really hard Especially her she's like I'm going through such stressful times She needs this is what she's thinking.

So like you said just trying to be an example like Just see what's going

Kevin: on. And if somebody is in that spot, right. Just try to cut back, try to take a break. See how it feels like, cause, and that's not easy either. Me saying that Oh, just try and take a break. Cut back.

Yeah. Like I'm not saying that's easy, but you know, we almost need to see proof because I was the same way. I was like, okay, I'm in year end here for work [00:41:00] and I'm going to like, stop drinking. That's. And I'm like, how, because that is how I get through the stress. So I mean, am I just going to explode?

If I don't drink, like what's going to happen here? But then I did it and I, I, with help, like I got a therapist, I started, I told my wife I needed to do something, I kind of just started. And after a couple of weeks, I was like, Oh, interesting. I'm not as stressed as I was, as I thought I would be without it.

And, and I went back and forth still after that, but, it kind of gave me that glimpse of okay, well, I, okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel like that, that there's something to that, I guess. It challenged that prior belief that I needed this, uh, coping skill. Tool to get myself through the day to day,

Jes: right?

Steph: Yeah. I think we can get addicted to [00:42:00] that chaos too. Like the running on adrenaline I don't know, just like pounding alcohol and then the next day it's like caffeine hangover and I'm so bad ass I can get through like year end on that or, whatever the thing is, the divorce whatever the difficult situation is.

I think we just. Are so used to this chaotic environment that it feels unnatural to have, like we talk about boredom, is it boredom or is it contentment and peace? How do we distinguish that? Because we're so used to all of this chaos going on and we can't imagine like actually having some semblance of control over emotions or actually just feeling the full like human range of emotions, what go, what, what happens when you go through a divorce and stuff like that, it's it might just feel like too much to, but yeah, I think it's amazing that you're.

Like leading by example and really just [00:43:00] being like a steward for this new way of life too because Oh my God, it hasn't been easy for you and you really had to make that decision, right? Especially when you look at the weed situation, because not a lot of people get addicted to it. And the way you described it was like full, most people think that using weed instead of alcohol would be harm reduction.

But it doesn't even matter if you were physically addicted or not. It's how you feel about it. And that's the same thing with alcohol. Like some people would be pleased with one glass a night. They would say, wow, that's great. That's me moderating. Some people might not like the way they feel about looking forward to that one glass.

And if they can't have that one glass, it gives them tremendous anxiety or makes them feel a certain way. It sounds like that was the situation with beat and you just, That's true. Kept fighting the battle, right? Like it didn't come easily to you.

Jes: No. And it's so true, Steph, what you talk about too.

So when I first realized or not first, but one of the times over the last [00:44:00] couple of years, and I called one of the rehab centers and I wanted to get help with weed. And they were like, we don't have that. You, we, you have to come here for alcohol. And I'm like, I'm going to lie and say, I have an alcohol problem to get help for weed.

Like what? And thank God, just a few years later, maybe five years later. And I think it's because of the prevalence of weed these days, it's a thing now and it's, thank God the help's out there. So, so I got evaluated and okayed for that, but when I walked in there and it's hard, those doors are heavy, right?

To even walk through, but they laughed at me when I said marijuana addict and I was like, Oh my God. And then I didn't even almost, want to go back. And I'm like, but then you could tell I changed. People's perspective, when they heard my story, they get it and it's man, that's, there's a little [00:45:00] bit of, that's why I'm here, I know you think it's funny and it's a joke, but wait till you hear about the hold that it has on me.

Steph: It boggles my mind that they were invalidating your experience with weed. That's infuriating.

Jes: Yeah. Yeah. It was a interesting program.

Steph: Yeah. I mean, not only are you fighting for your sobriety here, but you're also fighting to be recognized in an addiction center for something that you say you have in it.

Come on. It's not like you're saying, Oh, I have a problem with running, I run too much.

Jes: Yeah, it's a substance. It's a brain altering substance. Yes. Yeah.

Kevin: I'd like to apologize to all the runners out there, by the way.

Jes: Yeah.

Steph: It's the first thing I thought of. I, one of my best friends here is she does like Ironman stuff and she's trying to get me to do the Aqua bike. Where it's just like the bike or the swim [00:46:00] bike portion of it.

And then, I don't know, we were just talking shit about running today. It was on my mind. What's something else that you can't really be addicted to? I'm addicted to water. How about that? Is that benign enough?

Kevin: I literally just pictured you. In the water with some sort of bike that was made for the water, the aqua bike.

Yeah, that was some race that I, those

Steph: are real, those are real to people. I know I just imagined me peddling underwater and being like, Oh, there's so much resistance. Oh, my knees.

Kevin: Yeah. Sorry to sidetrack us there.

Steph: That's great. That's how we roll. oKay. Back on track. Yeah. It's not like you were saying I'm addicted to water. You're saying I'm addicted to a mind altering substance.

Jes: Right. Right. It is real.

Kevin: And that's [00:47:00] tough too with the, like in real life support versus virtual support, I'd say, because, virtual support can, I mean, reframe, right? It's there, like there's all the virtual support you need or want or may need. I mean, everybody's different.

Right. So I'm not going to discount that, but. There's, my virtual support was through Instagram, like I didn't have people, yes, okay, my wife doesn't drink by choice, like she just doesn't care, she'd rather have a Diet Coke but she's on that, one end of the spectrum, and then there's people who are on the other end, and there's everybody in between, there's that friend who has those few drinks and, you know what, and she might be fine, And be able to do that and not even think about it.

And it's not a thing for her, but maybe she wakes up one day and be like, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore. And there's nothing wrong with that. Right. And then there's that friend who blacks out and it's the same thing. They might be fine with it for now. Or maybe they're not [00:48:00] and they just don't know any other way to change or don't see anybody else doing it.

So therefore you can't do that. And maybe you're helping with that without even knowing or again, maybe they're just fine with it and they don't care. Yeah, but you know, like it definitely is that you were talking earlier about going up to Erie and. Being around alcohol and all that. And that's kind of was my experience too with, okay, I dove into everything in my alcohol free world was virtual and I felt like I was in this like sober bubble of Instagram.

And, I was with my therapist who was online and just all of that stuff. And then I would go out and venture out into the world and I was like, Oh, alcohol is very much alive and real. And it, that was kind of a. Shellshock at first, I guess, it just, it woke me up there, but, how [00:49:00] are you with virtual support versus, actual support, both of you, like what is your feelings on that?

Not actual support, virtual support versus in person support. Do you feel like we need both? We need one or the other, or, I mean, I'm guessing it's going to be dependent on the person, right?

Jes: Depends on the person. And I think virtual has gotten me here. But I do think in my experience that, especially with the IOP, sitting there and talking with the people in the room does help just in person, and.

I don't know if AA is right for me at this point. But you know, I love the thought of like old school, like support groups. Like how about, how about we just do that? Or, it doesn't have to be so. Regimented, like we all are going through issues like we talked about earlier can we just get together and support each other and talk over coffee or whatever?

[00:50:00] I think that's huge cause, and just breaking away from everything we used to do, cause you're right, Kevin, like it was shell shocking and I, you know what else I noticed, I was mentally exhausted when I would get home from, A party or even a holiday event or whatever, like just, and maybe, again, it's a lot of pressure I put on myself.

Like you need your plan, right? You need to bring your own drinks. This is what I do. I have a plan. I have my own drinks. You don't want to puke verbiage. The first time someone's like, why aren't you drinking? Cause they don't want to hear it. They don't want you to tell them their freaking story. So it's Oh my God filter.

And then I'm like, God, I get home and I'm exhausted from all that. Just mentally trying to keep it together. And that's the other thing, I'm learning myself all over again, which is pretty neat. [00:51:00] Like I just want to be on my couch with a candle and a book and do my bedtime routine and go to get a good night's sleep.

I just was listening to a Ted talk and they played classical music and I was like, I love classical music. Who is this person? It's so, there's some, definitely some downs, but there's so many ups. And again, I didn't say this, but not only does everything become more clear, I'm noticing everything is more beautiful.

It's I always compare it to that movie, American Beauty, when he's filming the plastic bag and he's talking about how beautiful life is like, it's amazing what gets me these days, like tiny things and just, I feel so grateful and so like emotional and it's just. More connected and more present, not just [00:52:00] here, but not here, if that makes any sense, like that's been, cause I feel like I've talked a lot about, the.

The uphill battle, but there has been amazing things, in this battle too. Yeah. But I do, I think in person is very important just so you're not, even if you're virtual, you're still a little isolated. You're still by yourself. You know what I mean? There is something to face interaction, a hug and that sort of thing.

Definitely. And I didn't talk about this a little bit, but at all. But during from January to June, I just got certified to be a yoga instructor. And I want to move down that realm. And of course drinking doesn't go with that yogi lifestyle, it just doesn't fit.

So, I mean, that's where I'm trying to like move and help people be more connected and be able to sit with themselves and [00:53:00] then not have to lean on substances and mental health and that sort of thing. So, and that's just another stressor. I've been in the insurance industry for 20 years.

It's lucrative, carry the benefits. Try talking to your husband about wanting to just shut that off and be a yoga instructor. It's not it's because

Steph: I mean, not yoga instructor but yeah, Kevin did too. Yeah.

Kevin: An actuary an accountant and a. Insurance person. I'll walk into a yoga studio. Yeah.

Jes: Yes, but you know, there's something to listening to yourself and you're being tugged in a way, like some people don't have that.

Some people are just good with their 40 hour job and are fine with that. And that's fine and you're happy and, but if there's something tugging you To, to share [00:54:00] something, to go down this road. Like I am big on that. And that's it's another uphill battle that I'm fighting, but, and again, I have the YOLO, like I'm about to be 43.

My mom died at 43. Like I, their life is too short. You need to be happy and doing, feeling your purpose and helping people and that sort of thing. So that's for the next episode.

Steph: No, I think we both, I think Kevin and I both get that. I mean, a hundred percent. It's so scary to give up like your like bread winning job and all of that.

All the benefits are attached to it. But it is, it's like all the confidence that comes from addressing your relationship with alcohol. And in your case Um, and feeling really called to this new direction. It's that's just, it's part of the process for some people. I wish I were one of those people who could, um,[00:55:00] just have been okay with my 40 hours a week or whatever.

It's just not how I roll. I

Jes: know, same. It is who I am, yeah, I'm not apologizing for it. Yeah, I know.

Steph: Yeah, no, I'm sorry he's here. Well, Jess, is there anything else that you want to share with us before we let you go? I

Jes: think that's about it. I think we covered a lot of ground. Yeah, thank you guys

Steph: so much.

You have a really inspiring story. I mean you definitely fought hard for what you have now and I'm like just personally really proud of you for putting in that effort with the roller coaster and even I find like the IOP situation to be just like if that would have happened to me and I was dealing with addiction I would have just walked out the door and been like Fuck it.

Yep. Like I can't imagine walking in after that. So I give you like so many kudos for just having that [00:56:00] agency and sticking up for yourself even in when you felt so down, so bad, so desperate for help. Just that's an amazing part of your story. And I hope a lot of people will be helped and inspired by you.

Jes: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Kevin: Yeah, 100 percent agree with everything Steph said. And thank you again for sharing. And good luck, on your continued. Work on this and Yeah, working through, Like you mentioned, you were going to couples counseling And, doing different things there And then just that continued work on That day to day, you know Through all of this, because, it, we don't get somewhere Hey, you're coming up on a year.

Right. And there's always that I made it and then it's Oh, then it's a year and a day. And you're like, Oh, so I just do this now? But yeah, celebrate it. Right. And find those. positives that you're discovering or [00:57:00] rediscovering you just said about classical music it's just the most random stuff that can come out of this, but unless we stop and look for it and acknowledge it we can, I can just skate by And that doesn't help us.

So acknowledging those things that we see positives from a day or 10 days or whatever wherever you're at, look for those, because that's, what's gonna keep driving us to do this thing. Yeah, thanks, Jess. Would you like to share where people can find you if you'd like? We'll include anything in the show notes too that you want, but if you want to share that and that'd be great.

Jes: Sure. You can find me on I have Instagram at.

At Jess, with one S, Patten23, and it's P A T E N. And then I also created, which I think is going to be more of a sober page on Instagram, that's Grateful Growth Life. Talking about all this [00:58:00] growth and changes, so. Yeah. Follow me if you want.

Kevin: Awesome. Thank you.

Steph: I love it. Thanks so much, Jess.

Kevin: Thank you all for listening to this week's episode of the Reframeable podcast brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest happiest view. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it.

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Have a great day.