Sarah: [00:00:00] I think all those little experiences, you're collecting data and, and data is evidence. And, and so I think

the more confidence that we build in this journey, in any of these areas where we're making a change and we're trying to adjust. So we feel comfortable now how everyone else wants us to feel. So we feel comfortable.

That's absolutely going to translate. into the bedroom. I mean, some people find that they have an appetite for something completely different behind closed doors. You know, it's, it's an opportunity really to, to really find out to use Kris's words, your authentic self.

Welcome everyone to another episode of the reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

Kevin: This podcast is brought to you by the ReFrame app. ReFrame is the [00:01:00] number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. In today's episode, Steph talks with Sarah and Kris.

Sarah and Kris's paths converge later in life, creating a unique bond where compromise is simply a foreign concept. Their relationship is based on trust and honesty, where both of them feel secure being their authentic self. Sarah's decision to embark on her journey to sobriety was a pivotal moment, made all the more special by Kris's unwavering support.

From navigating sober intimacy with all its quirks and surprises to reminding us that feeling like a teenager, again, isn't always a walk in the park. When they talk about sober sex, it's sure to leave you laughing, nodding, and reflecting. Sarah is the founder of Put It Down Lifestyle, a place for women to change their relationship with [00:02:00] alcohol.

She loves Muay Thai kickboxing, reading, and tickling her husband when he is grumpy. Kris is a master of all trades that is building his family's dream home. Sarah shows her gratitude for this in Sandwiches and Unsolicited Advice. So, without further ado, let's go listen to Steph, Sarah, and Kris talk about sober sex.

Steph: Well, welcome to the show, Kris and Sarah. I am so excited that you're here because I had the pleasure of meeting you and hearing you speak at Sober in the City this past September in Portland, Maine. I enjoy your talk so much and it's just really special for me to have you on the show because Sober sex and intimacy is like such a challenge for a lot of people in the community.

It can feel like such a taboo topic even among friends because it's so personal and I mean in the States at least we're, we're kind of prudes, so, you know, but in [00:03:00] reality many people who are exploring an alcohol free lifestyle or even looking to cut back on alcohol, they feel really nervous, you know, with their partners in the bedroom and it can even be a deterrent to sticking to their goals around alcohol because they feel like alcohol gives them confidence and whatever else.

So such a pleasure to have you guys on the show. I really admire your willingness to be so vulnerable with strangers. I can't imagine my husband getting up there with me, Kris. So kudos to you.

Sarah: yeah.

Steph: Kudos to you too, Sarah. I don't know why I just expect this from women, but like for some, like for some reason, like the couple combination is just so powerful to like, I think that's what makes it so, so magical.

And since I've heard some of your story before, I already know it was like. You know, Sarah made the significant change, and then Kris just had to deal with it. So, so... Yeah, that's right. He had to figure it out.[00:04:00] I mean, a lot of us can't even do that with our own partners, and you do it, you know, you're doing it on a podcast, you do it in front of, do it.

I'll see how many puns I make.

Sarah: We do this, but we don't do it in front of anyone.

Kris: The dogs get nervous. The

Sarah: dogs, because we do it the dogs.

Kris: Oh

Steph: my god, me too. They like to watch and it's weird.

Kris: Okay,

Steph: anyway, we'll try to keep the puns to a minimum, but I don't know if I can help it.

Sarah: The windows are looking great.

It's going to be hard not

Steph: to have them. It's gonna be hard, I know. I like, when I was like, just kind of typing out my notes for how I wanted to start this, I I wanted to use the word lubricate in like a non like sexual lubrication kind of way. And I'm like, I can't start the puns from the beginning because we got to have some boundaries.

Kris: [00:05:00] Now

Steph: it's going to be only where we can think of. So let's get started. I just want to hear a little bit more about your backgrounds and what brought you to talking about sober sex and intimacy.

Sarah: Sure. Well, you know, I stopped drinking over three years ago now, and like many of us, I just identified with, you know, fun and, and my sexual prowess was all connected to alcohol.

And I didn't, but I didn't really realize it. I thought that I was You know, just a sexual person by nature. And so I, you know, stopped drinking, went through a lot of the different hurdles with my friendships, my family members. Just things change when we stop drinking, as most of us know. But I did not expect at all our sex life to be impacted the way [00:06:00] it was.

And it was really, really... Scary for me because I identified with being, like I said, a sexual panther. I'm not cougar yet. I'm a panther. Right. Krissy bear. Absolutely. Thanks . And so I was really, you know, especially early in my journey, I was really internalizing some fear because I was like, oh my God, is he, you know, we were, you know, not together that long yet at that point in time, I think a year, maybe two.

Yeah. And, and I was like, oh, he's not gonna be happy because I am, I am. Not, you know, initiating as much. I'm not thinking about it. I'm certainly a lot more timid in the bedroom. I'm not the same person on a Tuesday at 1030 as I used to be and Especially early on I was just nervous like he's gonna leave me.

He's gonna he's gonna He's gonna go find and someone else who is fun on the Tuesday at 1030 You know Finally, you know, fortunately, he is someone who I can really [00:07:00] talk to and express myself with, and this is one of the first times I've really been lucky enough to be with someone who I truly trust with my feelings and putting down the alcohol Gave me that courage to vocalize, you know, hey, I'm feeling uncomfortable about this.

I I know this has changed in our life It's been like a week

Kris: What

Sarah: are we gonna do and you know, it turns out he and he, of course noticed, but he was feeling the same way in a sense, which I'll let obviously him speak to where he, you know, didn't want to make me feel uncomfortable and think that that was all that he was thinking about because he knew that me at that time, just taking a break from alcohol was what the number one goal is.

And, you know, I'll let him speak to that, but, but fast forward, you know, through my journey and, and the birth of put it down lifestyle where we help women take this break and we go through some of these challenges. This was just. Felt really important to talk about [00:08:00] because all I hear all the time is sober sex is great Sober sex is magical.

Sober sex is beautiful. You're more present. You're more intimate. You can tell them what you want. It feels great. Your orgasm is so much better. Sure. It sure as shit is. But getting there is so hard. Without the lubricant of alcohol. Yeah, I did two puns. There's one

Kris: more. So I just wanted to

Sarah: talk honestly about And it started out with just me talking about it.

And when, you know, I was talking to Peggy and Susie of Sober in the City, I was like, you know, my husband's a big part of this journey. He's usually with me during this, this whole sober sex thing, so I think it'd be really great to get his perspective

because he's so,

he's so good. He just, he knows so much.

So Kris, put your pants on.

Kris: Yeah, the, the, the beginning was definitely rough. I made [00:09:00] the decision to stop drinking for a while in solidarity with her to support her in her sobriety. And it didn't even cross my mind that it would impact our, our sex lives at all. It, and I would say within the couple of weeks when the kind of initial excitement of sobriety had worn off a little bit, that was the point at which I recognized, wow, this isn't easy.

You kind of lose your sense of how to initiate. And start looking back and realize how much alcohol was a lubricant in this area. A social lubricant. And...

Sarah: Stop trying to beat me.

Kris: How many times are you going to beat me? And, I didn't, I can't claim that I was the one that said it was Sarah. Sarah actually came to me and said, you know, I need to be honest about this, but I kind of...

Don't know [00:10:00] where to go with this or what to do, how to initiate. And it was in that moment of honesty that we were able to communicate together and realize we're both going through the exact same thing here and try and find ways to kind of remedy it, come up with a plan to get in front of it.

Sarah: Yeah. We're like two teenagers again, not like horny teenagers, like scared out of their mind, teenagers.

Kris: Oh, you know, you're focusing on everything. You know, starting, starting with a kiss, you know, that am I doing this right? I don't know. You, it was something that you never thought about before, but being that present in the moment.

I think you have a tendency to start overthinking everything and it's in that overthinking that it can actually seize you up, uh, a bit in, in moving forward. Yeah. So. You're great

Sarah: though. Yeah. I didn't even know he had a beard.

Steph: No, I get [00:11:00] that, like the overthinking everything. And, yeah, gosh, I didn't even really think of that like the downsides. It's not even a downside, but of being fully present. It's like we have to confront even when I think of like body image and stuff like that, like how I'm moving, how I look, yeah. You just don't, you don't give a shit when you're drunk. Right. So so Sarah, how did you approach Kris with this? You said that you were only together a year or two and I don't know if it would feel scary to like bring this up in, in a kind of newish relationship. So how did that go?

Sarah: Well, you know, I try to be very honest when I don't know how to say something. Because I, I think it's okay to acknowledge I don't have a solution. I don't want any of this to come out the wrong way. I feel uncomfortable even saying these words out loud. So I think acknowledging that in the, like, right off the bat, is something that [00:12:00] set the tone.

Where, one, he knew that this was important to me. Two, he knew that I cared about his feelings. And three, I I, and I told myself this before and he validated it, he was happy that I was concerned about this too. You know, I mean, this, this obviously I wasn't going to ignore it. I was acknowledging it. I think to him that probably made the conversation more valuable to him because he knew I cared about it was something that was just as important to me as it may or may not have been to him, which I think it was.

And you know, we obviously. I think for us, a lot of our serious conversations that we have, and we talk a lot about everything, but we have them in, you know, our favorite places. And it's not in the bedroom. It's just like sitting on the couch and it's casual. And it's not this like, all right, we need to talk,

Kris: talk, the entire idea of intimacy kind of changed.

You know, there was a lot more, pleasure and just sitting down and speaking to [00:13:00] each other and understanding each other. Or spending time, just spending generic time together became a lot more important minus the alcohol. Yeah, there are there are moments now where we'll go to bed and have every intention of engaging in sex and end up just talking for an hour in bed and falling asleep.

And it's not that we're not engaging in intimacy at all. We actually are the simple things finding out of, you know, talking about each other's days and the way that we're feeling at a moment or a particular situations that have cropped up in problem solving, problem solving a lot of that.

Yeah. And you know, so I'd say when we get to the point where we actually will have been physical interaction. There's, there's actually a much higher degree of intimacy in it.

Sarah: [00:14:00] Yeah. It's, it's, I think one of the things we all think about when we think of intimacy is actual physical acts. And, you know, when we asked a lot of people at Sober in the City and when Kris and I talk about it, it's, it's really that connection that you have with another human being, the ability to be vulnerable, be yourself, have the trust.

And that does take work because it requires me to be vulnerable, requires him to be vulnerable and trust the other person. And I don't think we really realized even, even. A year or two into our sobriety, how much our intimacy had improved from a non typical sexual standpoint, just in our conversations and how we, even our non conversations, our ability to sit in quiet, which is something that Kris has really taught me.

It's beautiful. And when we do connect physically, when it is time to fool around, when we do make it happen at night, [00:15:00] also we learn it doesn't have to be at nighttime because for us, we're going crazy all day, nonstop. We're really lunchtime people. Well,

Kris: before it was part of it, it was, it was part of a routine.

You know, you came home from work, you had a couple of drinks, you got a little sloppy, you looked at each other, you went into bed, had sex, went to sleep, rinse and repeat. And you know, in the, the absence of alcohol, it just takes a completely different path every day. And it doesn't necessarily have to follow that routine.

It becomes when you're actually. in the moment between the two of you with no part of alcohol in no way being involved in that intimate moment anymore.

Sarah: I learned I'll have to give you the author's name. It's slipping my mind right now, but she is an [00:16:00] expert on, on not sober sex, but on sex and intimacy in general.

And she talks about. Really finding out what you desire about your partner, not in a sexual sense. So if you think about when you first met your partner or when you're if you're dating, you know what's something that you kind of first offer attracted to and like my husband if he plays an instrument or sings I'm like Melts my heart when he builds things around the house for us.

It, that's, those are the things that give me a little tingles and kind of refocusing on that has been a really interesting part of building our intimacy too, is just going like, wow, like look at this man. He was able to do these things for me. And like, I get to be a part of that and see it. And that's been really cool to tap into because I don't know if that would be as, we wouldn't be as curious.

About each other with the veil of alcohol?

Kris: Yeah. What, what triggers the moments have changed. Yeah. You know, in, in, instead of it being [00:17:00] a, a bottle, that's the trigger. It's, it's something that someone's doing or an appreciation, a recognition, any of these much deeper things that are leading to these moments.

That's, that's one of the biggest changes, I think, overall in our, in our sexual lives. ,

Steph: like when Kris works with wood.

Kris: Yeah, that's true.

Sarah: Don't worry, I'll help him oil

Kris: it.

Steph: Oh, Lordy. Well, I do, like, what I love about this is that you're really redefining what it means to be intimate, right? When you remove the alcohol or like we have people in reframe that cut back as well. But when it's not such a central part of your day or your life or whatever, it's like we can really return to some of those basics because I do think about that when you're like early on dating someone like there's physical attraction.

Yeah, but like. We can feel that way about tons of people, right? Like what makes that person your person? [00:18:00] And then that becomes a turn on. And so basically the time that you're spending together is all essentially foreplay when you get curious and like start. Yeah. Like you start looking at all of these little ways that, that your person shows up in your life and like turns you on, whether it is playing an instrument, which is super sexy, doing stuff around the house, like that, like building things for you, for your family, like that is all really special stuff.

And that is why, you know, why Kris is your person. Right. Or at least some of the reasons why.

Kris: Yeah. Well, you know, all of those things are inherently an act of love. Anyway, you know, when we talk a lot about how we express our love to each other. And I know for me, that's the way that I do it.

You know, that's the, I'm always building things for somebody else. If I'm doing it for myself, I don't find the joy in it. I have to be doing it for somebody else. And in this case, you know, I'm doing it a lot for, for. [00:19:00] for Riley. And that's where, that's where I get my joy.

Steph: So great. Yeah, that's, I mean, that, that really is amazing.

I, I don't know, I guess just the whole reframe of looking at intimacy in a different way and looking at it with this kind of curiosity and, um, And then being able to sit down with the other person and even saying things like, it is so hot when you like build this stuff for us, you know, and like, gosh, it's like so easy when you've been in a relationship forever to just kind of nag and forget about all of those things that like attracted you in the first place.

And that is where that intimacy comes from. Right? Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah: And you know, a lot of, a lot of the folks that we talk to is they've, they've been together a really long time. And so sometimes we'll hear where you guys are. are a newer couple. So you, you haven't been together about 30 years and had been to the place where just it's same old hat all the time.

So it makes it that [00:20:00] much harder. And I understand that, but I think combined, we've been married a lot for many years. and I still think it rings true based on what we've learned. Hopefully you're not listening.

Steph: Hi, Exus.

Sarah: Thank you for all you taught us.

Steph: I'm good at sex now.

Sarah: But you know, it's I know I totally forgot where I was going with that, but thank you. But we really knew, you know, We, we feel like that applies to, to folks who have been together a long time, and it applies to people who are just starting in the dating world where you do get to go back to your roots.

And a lot of us, I know for me, a lot of us who. did associate alcohol with self worth, with dating, with sex that I haven't had. I could probably count on one hand, the amount of experiences I've had without alcohol that were sexual in [00:21:00] nature. I lost my virginity when I was under the influence.

College, you know, not that much.

But, but,

but, you know, so I'm not relearning how to do something I am learning how to do it. So, you know, for, for us, we try to think about it as, as an opportunity to have fun together and to explore and to, to really start a new and I think. Any relationship, no matter how long they're together, have that opportunity.

Steph: Yeah. I mean, it's a great opportunity because I hear things can get a little stale when you've been married a while too. So even if you like, this is a great conversation to have, even if we're not talking about. Sober sex, right? Just like, I don't know, reigniting that and like redefining the intimacy, like super, super, super cool.

Kris: And you're following a different path essentially to learning how to let go and just be in the moment [00:22:00] sexually alcohol kind of, you know, affords you the opportunity to. noT think about what you're doing and that's something that you have to, once you've relearned that, but sober that applies to everything, even outside the social situations outside of the bedroom as well, which was another aspect of sobriety that I know Sarah in particular struggled with was even going out and Yeah.

Into social events.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, it was like hearing your cell phone recording for the first time sounds like

Steph: I know

Sarah: in the bedroom,

Kris: there were parallels there to that. You know, I feel like when we heard things in the bedroom, it helped to hurdle things outside of the bedroom as well. It started there and worked its way out.

So it was a good launching point and kind of a place of safety to learn how to care less in the outside world to, you know, just kind of go with the flow and [00:23:00] be able to be your authentic self with, with other people too, in your

Sarah: sobriety. Yeah. And you know, I think that speaks a lot to you as my partner is that I trust him to do that.

Like to be able to be my authentic self. Whereas if I couldn't do that, or if I couldn't get there because it's work, it's not, it wasn't like this. Took some, take some work, still takes work, but if I didn't have someone who I did feel safe with, which is really important, then it probably wouldn't be as great it is.

So thank you for that.

Kris: Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, sobriety was another one of those things in life that you know, an interesting moment when I knew she was, that Sarah was exploring sobriety. And when she finally pulled the trigger, there was that moment of, okay, here we go. Yeah. What's this going to be like?

And you know, another, another chapter in the book of life. That's right. [00:24:00]

Steph: Yeah, definitely. I, I was thinking about what you said, Kris, about how that comfort and. Sort of not caring that much in, in the bedroom, like nothing going perfect or whatever translated to the outside world. And I wonder if we have some listeners who have successfully navigated the outside world, social situations and stuff like that, but are still kind of worried about the bedroom.

Like, do you think that can work in reverse? And how do you think it can translate?

Kris: Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. You know, for us, it became a safe place. But that, that safe place was the foundation of it was really the honesty between us. So I could see how it would work yeah, the opposite way from the outside coming in.

Yeah, but I, I suspect it would be kind of the same thing in reverse. Sure. Absolutely.

Sarah: I think all those little experiences, you're collecting data and, and data is evidence. And, and so I think the [00:25:00] more confidence that we build. In this journey in any of these areas where we're making a change and we're trying to adjust so we feel comfortable now how everyone else wants us to feel so we feel comfortable that's absolutely going to translate into the bedroom.

I mean, some people find that they have an appetite for something completely different behind closed doors. You know, it's it's an opportunity really. To really find out, to use Kris's words, your authentic self.

Kris: I would say, it sounds to me like being single, even If you're single and working on your sobriety you know, I mean, you're probably taking an even, you're taking a different look at the people that you're kind of vetting in your life too, to be a partner in some way.

You're not looking through the lens of alcohol anymore. So you're probably making better choices ultimately. And

Steph: hopefully, yeah,

Kris: in [00:26:00] choosing the people that you want to swipe left. Want to have those intimate and vulnerable moments with and you can credit that for your, you know Like, you know if Sarah had been sober in college

Steph: We'll talk about that offline maybe

Sarah: How many times that I've spent speaking to someone I've dedicated my time to someone Who I really wasn't interested in and I probably would have realized that sooner if I didn't have the veil of alcohol.

Kris: Yeah, so many people tell you, you know, you're always hearing a story about sometime in life when something happened under the influence, you know, waking up the next day and saying, Oh my God, what did I do?

He is good though.

Steph: [00:27:00] Not me. I've never said that.

Kris: The walk of shame.

Steph: The walk of shame. Once I lost my shoes in a frat house.

Kris: Oh yeah, yeah, you can lose far worse than that in a frat house.

Steph: That's true. I know, no one could find them and then like three weeks later the house just spit them out. I don't know. We don't know what happened with those shoes. I threw them out. The

Kris: crap boy walked out with them.

Steph: Yeah, that confidence in sobriety was one of the unexpected benefits that I've realized, and I think that's kind of what we're talking about, right?

Like the confidence to go out in social situations, the confidence to bring it up to your partner, even if it feels uncomfortable, even if you might use the wrong words or whatever, just having that radical honesty that you talked about, Sarah, where, you know, I'm nervous to bring this up. I don't know [00:28:00] how to say it the right way.

But it's really important to me and I like, want to work with you on this. I want to figure out how to bring, you know, the spark back and that kind of thing,

Sarah: what you just framed up to, you know, before going into those conversations, having an idea of what you want to get out of it is great too. And, you know, just like, you know, business meeting, not suggesting you have a business meeting with your partner, but, you know, just saying, Hey, I want to figure out, how we can take a step towards fooling around a little bit more or getting a little more comfortable, you know, having an idea in your head what you want out of the conversation certainly can help drive that the direction it needs to

Steph: go.

Kris: Absolutely

Steph: Yeah. Beginning with the end in mind. What was that? Happy ending.

Oh

Kris: God. We're here all night.

Steph: Okay, we talked about how you. are finding [00:29:00] ways to be intimate and just the day to day observing, you know, these things that you love about each other, how everything is essentially foreplay when you get that curiosity and excitement, you know, about what you love about each other.

But are there any other things that you do to promote intimacy and was it different in early sobriety compared to now?

Sarah: Well, I know for me, I love, love,

love, love,

love, love asking Kris how he felt about me in the beginning. I love revisiting like when we first started dating and to me that drives. So much connection because it, I want to keep, I always want to stay tethered to that, that moment.

And I like to hear it and I feel closer to it. And I feel like we still have those, those little butterflies that we had in the beginning. So we have little games that we play where I'll say, you know, what did, what, when did you first know that you fell in love with me? I mean, obviously it was the first time he saw me, but I need more details.[00:30:00]

I need to know what he was eating, I need to know where he was, what was going through his head. But my point is asking questions about, you know, some of those fun moments asking because I experienced it, but I like hearing how he experienced it. And that I feel like gives us. A really good connection. He can tell you how many times I asked.

Kris: She asks all the time.

Sarah: And compared to when I first listened, I mean, I always ask. And it's not a, it's not a, it's cute. It's adorable.

Kris: There's a lot of emotional auditing.

Sarah: But it's not because I'm insecure, it's because I just love hearing it. I mean, you kind of see that in the movies when like the little kids ask the parents to tell the story again, Daddy, I've already told that one again, that's us every night.

Kris: Yeah, I think for us, even, even though we were drinking at the time, there was a moment of, there was an extreme moment of clarity in [00:31:00] what both of us wanted in a partnership. And that drove our early love was that we found honesty in each other and common ground moving forward.

We knew what we wanted together moving forward. And so that only got stronger. When we stopped drinking, you know, there was more, I would say that there was more of a focus on it, you know, so raising Riley together brought back into clear focus exactly what we needed to do, realizing that we were going to better dedicate our lives to focusing on her development as a human being too.

Sarah: And I think, I think too, like towards what you can correct me if I'm wrong, towards like, Closer to now to drive some intimacy. I think I'm getting a little more comfortable being a little sexier with him. And I think that's changed a little bit. Like maybe I'll send him a picture on a [00:32:00] couch without any clothes on while I'm away.

And I think that's been. Listen, there was a couch and it was just like the one from Titanic. So you're like, what are your French girls, Kris? I mean, I always have to like layer on a joke. I can't be just pure sex. But I feel like that came back a little bit, that desire to tease him a bit, which. you know, was something I didn't necessarily think would come back.

And so that's kind of been nice to have that want to go. I should send them a little, you know, dirty text or send them a little picture to let them know that I'm thinking about him in that way.

Kris: Specifically saying that, I would say that one of the biggest changes.

For us was I was so used to Sarah driving our encounters early on when we were drinking, it was just, you know, we get to a certain punch, you get up kind of, you know, [00:33:00] shake a little bit and. You know, that was a, you know, that was the, that was the signal that it was go time and in sobriety, at first that wasn't there anymore.

She became very conscious of everything that she was doing. And I recognized early on, I said, well, Actually, you approached me and she said, you know, I think I need you to maybe initiate a little bit more and I said, Oh, man, yeah, you're right up and I didn't realize how lazy I'd gotten about actually initiating sex and that was a major readjustment for me where I said, Okay.

I have to begin to do things differently. That is so annoying now. I'm a monster. Yeah, yeah. She tries to beat me off with a bat. Oh, yeah.

Steph: So. Yeah, you guys are [00:34:00] boring.

Well, I just, I mean, I love that radical honesty too. And it sounds like you have both . You know, early on acknowledged and address that there was an issue with this and you had to work through it.

And then it's evolved right along with you, right? Like, it probably started with, okay, Kris initiates more and then maybe a little uncomfortable and we're figuring things out. And then. I'm like, want to be sexy for him again. And I wasn't sure that would come back and it like organically happened. It just kind of evolved right along with you.

Yeah. That, I mean, that'll give people a lot of hope to, you know, that it won't be like, just like with going alcohol free or changing your relationship with alcohol. It feels awkward at first. You have to like, learn these things, like learn how to socialize and figure out what you like doing that isn't drinking, you know, and it's just.

It's really a parallel for the bedroom. It's just, you know, a little more vulnerable.

Kris: The hard part is getting started.

Sarah: Right. And we [00:35:00] never regret doing it, ever. Right.

Kris: Yeah. Don't we? No. We high five each other afterwards now. We're like, we did it. That's terrible. That was terrible.

Steph: Yeah, you guys are real connected, right?

Sarah: But you know, that's a good point though, is I think if you, a lot of us early on, we think it has to be the same as it was before and it's from a frequency perspective and a cadence perspective and how long it lasts perspective. And it just. Doesn't. And, and I think we both recognize when we want to feel physically connected again.

He can actually, I'll, I'll be agitated when I'm agitated. He's like,

do you need me?

And I'm like, he's always right. That's [00:36:00] most of the time, most of the time, 100

percent right. You

know, you can't look at the journey thinking it's going to be exactly the same. And I think it is. Take those expectations off of it.

And like you said, allow it to organically develop together. It eliminates that discomfort, creates that comfort and, and y'all can enjoy it together. I mean, we know when we need, like, we can, we're like, okay, let's. We need to hang out today or we need to hang out tomorrow morning.

Lunchtime.

Kris: Yeah. We're much more in tune with what our physical and emotional needs are too. That's that definitive change. We're not, you're not just going through the motions the routine anymore of the thing. You're engaging because you, you want to on a very, you know, deep and emotional level and sometimes not

Steph: right, right. Yeah. So besides, you know, maybe the unrealistic expectations that sex [00:37:00] should be the same before and after drinking. Why do you think that's that sober sex is such a hang up with people?

Sarah: Well, I think, you know, like I said early in my journey, I heard a lot about sober sex and how great it was.

And so I felt like something like there's something wrong. Because I was hearing how great it was. I wasn't hearing all the difficulties that potentially came along with it. And so, I think that's one of the keys is to, for us to be honest and to say out loud, This is a change. This is difficult.

And it might be something that's hard to communicate with your partner. Kris and I are really lucky that, Kris is very lucky he has someone who likes to talk as much as I do.

Steph: Yeah, he is.

Sarah: And I'm just as lucky, but some folks, communication is a skill set, baby, and some folks don't have it. And that's okay.

And that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with them, but I think it's it's important to facilitate that conversation [00:38:00] somehow. You know what I mean? So I think that's, I

Kris: think it drives better

Sarah: conversation. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Steph: Yeah. So, I mean, what would be like your top tips for people having trouble navigating sex and intimacy?

In sobriety. Sure. I felt like

Sarah: you wanted to say something. I

Kris: think just do it is the, you know, at the end of the day, it's just do it. You'll never regret doing it. just forcing yourself into action, even if you don't feel like it will help to break through the wall that's there without the liquid courage.

And once you've done it, and you recognize that you can do it, you just grow from there. Each time becomes easier and easier and easier. And then after a while, You're not even aware of the fact that you're having sober sex anymore. You're just having sex

That's it.

Sarah: Yeah, and we remember all of it. [00:39:00] Yeah, which is great Which is really really really great you know, and I think too it's getting to know yourself again and reflecting on what you especially for females is figuring out what Makes you feel good inside and figuring out how to articulate it and most men I would argue I know my husband probably likes it when I tell him what I like what I've discovered what I like Because then he gets to accomplish that.

Steph: Yeah And then you high five

Sarah: The playbook right the playbook. I wrote him a whole one But Excel sheets and everything and keep trying like it's it's just do it but it's also keep trying, you know, it's it's If you have a goal in mind, if you want to keep, just keep going, you'll get there, you'll build the confidence, just keep trying and reach out if you need help.

Steph: Yeah, really good advice. I like that. Do you ever recommend that people actually plan it in? Like what if they have a dry spell with [00:40:00] their, with their partner or something like that? Oh

Kris: yeah. Why? This was a big moment for us.

Sarah: So we had a dry spell and we both recognized it and we wanted to do something about it.

And so we initiated, I can't remember whose, whose idea it was. It was your idea. He said that way too fast. It was called Project Foam. That was the name of our project. And it was 7 days, no specific times, just 7 days in a row. Rain, sleet, snow, shine, didn't matter. We had to... sexual intercourse one of those days, all seven of those days, excuse me.

And so it didn't matter if we had a long day at work. It didn't, I think we were even, one of us might've been sick. We just had to do it, get through it. And it was amazing. It was so much fun. Because we both were having a long day. We both had

Steph: to suffer through it,

Sarah: which is only that it was only that that that lead up to it.

It's never [00:41:00] during it. It's just the lead up. And you're like, why is they make it such a big deal for those 45 seconds? Why didn't

Kris: we just do it? Projects phone, a bone has steadily got steadily got kind of, Reduced. Yeah. One to five days and then to three. Yeah.

Sarah: Now we're like one day. That's

Steph: how long it is.

Birthdays.

Kris: After

Sarah: that that seven, I think the seventh day after we high fived, we were like, you don't have to do it for like a month.

Kris: Like I feel like seven

Sarah: times in a row is the equivalent of like 17 times a week. Yeah. Absolutely.

Kris: That was awesome. Yeah. It's great.

Steph: I love that, though, because you guys are making it fun when it could be so awkward, and I think that's probably where, um, that's okay.

Sarah: Edit that out. Alexa wanted us to take

Kris: the trash

Steph: cans out.[00:42:00] But yeah, what I love Alexa, chill.

Kris: Alexa, off.

Steph: Did she say, I'm not going to chill?

Kris: No, we actually schedule all of our sex through Alexa now. Oh

Steph: my god.

Kris: I actually scheduled that through Alexa, too. Mark has complete control of our lives now. She tells me when to go to the bathroom. That's our top tip. Yes, we have no problem scheduling this via your smart device. Alexa.

Steph: Oh my god, I'm just [00:43:00] imagining her being like, it's time for Project Bone.

Kris: Oh, three, two, one. Yeah, stop. Yeah, that was, that was real.

Steph: Now I'm sweating. Whew. Right? Totally. Okay.

Good stuff,

you guys. Okay, what was I talking about? Oh alright, so I love how you guys just, like, make a game out of it, like the Project Bone and stuff like that. You can laugh about it, you can high five about it, and I think where a lot of

women in particular, well, depending on how you were raised, but I was always raised that, like, Guys only want sex and they only think about this one thing. And it's like, you're, I was taught that as a teenager to kind of deter me from having early sex, but it's like, that doesn't leave your mind.

You know what I mean? And it's like, yes, of course men want [00:44:00] sex, but women want sex too. And that isn't the only, like, I don't believe that about men. That's not the only thing they want because I'm hearing you guys and like hearing you talk, Kris and Sarah and. Like talking about like the real intimacy and the real communication and how these, like the sexiness follows having all of that already kind of laid down.

Right. It makes the sex part easy

Sarah: to reframe what you were saying too about guys. Cause I clearly can speak for all men, but yes, we overthink it. And, and am I sexy as I was? And, and so. You know, for I think my husband and he can speak for himself, obviously he didn't, he always will think I'm sexy if I'm, if I'm going to engage with him in that physical act of love, he's going to be happy.

He's not going to be as nitpicky in my head. So what we learned a lot as children, there might've been some truth to that because of that, [00:45:00] meaning I'm overthinking it because I'm worried that I forgot to pluck a nipple hair and he is like, has never even noticed that I have.

Kris: What is that? I don't know why I said that.

It's a thing.

Sarah: Thanks mom for never telling me that. Sorry. Anyway. But you know what I mean? Does that make sense? You always think I'm sexy. Always.

Yeah.

I feel like I'm totally feeding him lies.

Kris: I do. I find her sexy all the time.

Steph: Alexa told me so.

Kris: No,

Steph: I mean, and that's a good point, right? Like, I mean, we're just, we're raised to think that men are only attracted to all of these superficial qualities about us. And it's like, if my hair changes or my body changes, which it [00:46:00] will, right? And it's like, God, I hope that our marriages and our partnerships have more to hang on than the way we look.

Right. And like, we have to kind of retrain our brains to, to think ourselves out of that cycle sometimes.

Kris: Absolutely.

Steph: All right Olsen's

Well, thank you so much for coming on. Is there anything else you want to share with our reframe users? Before we let you go like Sarah Let me know what you're like how we can find you and what offerings you have will explain We'll include everything in the in the show notes, but let's just

Sarah: Put it down lifestyle.

We have Foundational program or 25 days where women can come explore their relationship with alcohol connect with other women We you're a lifetime member So you get a bunch of different things with that like we have monthly workshops We do fitness challenges just things like girlfriends do on a regular basis We try to throw that into the whole [00:47:00] program you can find me on social media at putitdownlifestyle.

com or excuse me putitdownlifestyle and then www. putitdownlifestyle. com and you can reach Kris through me.

Kris: And just do it. Just do it. Don't take it so seriously.

Sarah: Exactly. Just have fun. This is a great opportunity.

Kris: That's it. You got one life to live. Do

Steph: it. I love it. Yeah. But what a great way. What a great way to like, leave us off.

Thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you too. You are so much fun. And I know our listeners are going to get so much out of this. This is a topic that we just need to have more discussions on. So thank you so much. All right. We'll talk to you soon. Bye.

Kevin: Thank you all for listening to this week's episode of the reframeable podcast brought to you by the reframe app. [00:48:00] Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. If you have a topic that you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app. com, or if you're on the reframe app, open up the app, give your phone a shake, and when the box pops up, ask a question there, I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode.

Have a great day.