Navigating Holiday Parties

Steph: [00:00:00] I lost

you for a

second.

Kevin: Oh, okay. I lost you a little bit before. And I always just kind of keep nodding my head. And I did too. Cause I saw you fine. And then the last one where I lost you, then you immediately started laughing. I was like,

Steph: Oh yeah, I was like, See, these are the little clips that you need to. Yeah. Put in front of the show before the intro. Yeah. So people are like, what are these jokers doing? Yeah.

Kevin: Occasionally there's a lag in the video and audio and yeah.

Steph: We take it very, very seriously. Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. If like you came in and if you unfroze and you like you were crying I'd be like, all right, we need to maybe redo this.

'cause I need to react appropriately to that . You're like laughing instead. Yeah. I was like, looked out of my head and laughing. I'd like, oh shit. She's crying. She's crying. Abort, abort, .

Steph: Wrong. Pretend reaction. . Yeah.

[00:01:00] Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

Kevin: This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at Reframe.

Steph: I'm Steph Prangley. I'm a coach at Reframe and a nutritional therapy practitioner with a business called The Sober Rebellion. Kevin, what's going on, man?

Kevin: I don't know. It seems like a while since we, I can't remember, it feels, I think we might've talked like two weeks ago or maybe more, [00:02:00] but it seems like it's been a while.

But no, I mean, same old, same old I'm still doing 75 hard. I'm still, working. I'm still, my daughter's still playing soccer during the playoffs and district championships tonight. District finals, whatever. Yeah, I mean, kind of same stuff, different day. How about you?

Steph: That's, I mean, that's super exciting.

So you made it, you're at your past 30 days for 75 hard or 366 hard.

Kevin: Yeah, today yeah, 366 hard. Today is day 41 of 366. Yes. Yeah. So I was just talking with a friend I was doing this, I'm doing this with and I was like, okay, we're, we're entering the dark ages here in, in forties, because it's like, okay, it's, it's become mundane but we're still over a month away and we're still.

Kind of in that middle part where it kind of comes a drag I've noticed in the past usually around like day 60, then it keeps picking up. So like the next like 15 to [00:03:00] 20 days will be, uh, a little tedious,

Steph: but. Oh my God. That's like the same as giving up alcohol.

It's

Kevin: the same with making any change, I think, right? It's like, we, we have that motivation where we're excited, we're feeling good, or maybe, maybe not about feeling good, but we have that motivation. To change good, bad, and different and then yeah, we, we start off and then it's like our old lives collide with this new thing that we want and that's where the, that's where the tough tough parts come in.

Steph: Hmm. Sounds familiar. Yeah, that motivation thing actually in my meeting today, we're going to talk about the difference between motivation and commitment and consistency. Not that anyone's going to hear this until long after, but but yeah, I mean, that's what I want to talk about because.

We can only rely on motivation [00:04:00] for so long, which you're experiencing. And at some point it becomes like, how do I, how do I set up my life? So I can push through this little like blah period. Knowing that it'll get better. Right. Like we know it'll get better. With our alcohol free or cutback journeys or with something like a, like a fitness or nutrition challenge or something like that.

So I love it. And I mean, you have an accountability partner too, which I didn't know about that helps a lot.

Kevin: Yeah, there's a couple of us doing, it's like I kind of doing a couple of different things simultaneously. And yeah, it's all, it's all good for accountability and motivation for sure to at least push each other whenever.

Inevitably one of us is down and hopefully the others are up or whatever. There's somebody who can, like, kind of keep the, uh, keep running with that torch or whatever.

Steph: Definitely. That's awesome. And then, yeah, you are a very proud parent and a very dedicated [00:05:00] parent to go watch soccer in the changing weather of the Midwest.

Kevin: Hey, it's a high of 71 today. We're not complaining right now, although I do like it cold. I do like it colder, but but yeah, it's, it's not, we're, we're in a stretch where it's. 70s, 60s and 70s, so not too bad

Steph: way to jinx it, man. It's going to be like rainy and like sleeting before you know it.

Kevin: Yeah, I think there is a 15 percent chance as the number just starts going up as I look at it.

Yeah, yeah, that'll come soon enough Saturday, 50 percent than 74 percent then yeah. Winter is coming.

Steph: I like it too. I actually, I like the, I hate the summers here down South. Like I would. We looked at moving to Alaska for the summer like my husband is a chef and he could get like good part time work up there [00:06:00] and I was going to help like nanny my friend's new baby and like do this coaching and stuff like that.

But it just didn't, didn't work out. She didn't want a friend raising her kid in case we had disagreements. And I'm like, I don't know how we could disagree on like caring for an infant. Don't you just. Just kind of keep it alive and take it for walks and stuff.

Kevin: There's so many ways that you could disagree on how to do things for sure.

Steph: But I have no idea. I don't have kids. I have no opinions on it. I'm just like. Want to, I don't know, raise

Kevin: like sleep schedules or yeah, feed, feedings or whatever. I mean, there's, everybody has an opinion. I'm not saying you say you do, you would be like, I would just, I would just be, what do you want me to do?

I need to be

Steph: told what to do. I'm like, I don't know what this like cute little squishy blob needs. Like,

Kevin: I did. I had no idea.[00:07:00] I'll need a refresher course eventually to yeah, even I mean, even, I made sure I picked out my mug for, the, the discussion today. This is my winter death wish coffee mug.

One of them. But I'm also hoping for cold weather, as well.

Steph: You're so fancy with your mugs. I always have my central perk.

Kevin: Yeah, it's a process in the morning. I have my, every day has a specific mug. But then after I use that mug, it's like, okay, what am I feeling today? What's going on? What do I need?

Yeah, set the tone. Love it.

Steph: So what's new with me? Well, I talked about this a little bit in one of my meetings too, but I'm like so obsessed right now with the sounds like a cult podcast. It's basically this comedian and a linguist. I think they're probably in like their late twenties hop on the mic and explore all of these different organizations or brands or stuff like that.

And they just. make this [00:08:00] argument for like, how culty is it? And they have three tiers. So like the, there's like the live your life tier, which is, whatever, no one cares watch your back. So it could potentially be like, something that could get you and then get the fuck out, which is, the highest order.

I got interested in it because I was. Going to my spin my spin studio with a friend of mine. And I was talking about, gosh, there's like so many culty aspects of this community. It was just like, like, this sounds like a cult thing, like popped in my ear on a different podcast or something. And I heard that they did one on, uh, on soul cycle.

And I'm like, that was their first episode. I'm like, Oh, I'm going to listen to that. And then I was just obsessed from there on out.

Kevin: Yeah. And, and anything like that, right. I mean, this community did you say at one point, like they did one on. AA or some other, the [00:09:00] sober community in general

Steph: or something like that. Yeah, they did like 12 step programs. So, and they did a two parter on it. So they had one where it was like someone who, had an amazing experience with it.

And then they did a follow up where, it was kind of the warning things. But yeah, they did like a Starbucks one. Disney adults. That's a, that's a live your life. They're not doing any harm. But they have these criteria that that they set out on how to determine where it is.

Like some of them are really important to listen to, like the internet therapist was really good. There's a certain therapist on Instagram, many of them, but there's one in particular, who's like. Could be problematic and I guarantee you either follow her or no, like a hundred plus people who follow them.

Kevin: We'll talk after this.

Steph: Yeah, but it was really good, but it got I mean it gets me thinking really deeply [00:10:00] about Like internet marketing in general, because seriously, everything I've ever learned from my business coaches about online marketing and how to show up on social media and stuff like that.

It's like, it, it overlaps with culty language, like how you're supposed to use the language that your followers use. And. Like all of these tactics to sell. So it's just, it's made me like stop posting on Instagram. And I'm like, I, I know I offer a service that's like legitimate and helps people. And it's not like crazy overpriced.

Like they do one on life coaches too, who are charging like 20, 000 for their package or whatever. And it's like, I know I'm not doing that. And I'm, I have various levels where it's accessible. And I offer scholarship to like historically marginalized. So it's like I do feel ethical with it, but I'm just at a standstill with how to like market my nutrition business now because [00:11:00] I don't want to fall into that category where I'm promising something I can't deliver on, which I've never done.

I, or it's like. All of this, like, fix yourself stuff and yeah, so I'm having just an existential crisis right now. Yeah, and

Kevin: with that, I mean, I'm not, I I don't have a sales bone in my body, I guess. I don't like that kind of those tactics and that and that's not the way I always think is like, show up as yourself and the people who You know, the people will find you who, are right for you and things like that.

Obviously people can disagree with that and say that, yeah, you're not going to get, as much exposure or your Instagram isn't going to push your reels if you don't use this or do that or say this or say that. And, I don't, it's tough. Yeah.

Steph: Yeah. It's like striking that balance, but I think I'm moving into the camp that you just said, where I'm just like, I'm just going to talk out there and use [00:12:00] this page.

And if I, attract people who are interested, then that's great. Like I, love to offer my services to people who, and like one of the most important things about hiring someone like a nutritionist or a recovery coach or whatever is the vibe you feel with them. A lot of people can, can do what I do.

I think there's fewer with experience in like addiction and recovery science and stuff like that, because I still see a lot of potentially harmful like diet advice being thrown out there. And that just isn't appropriate for the addicted community. But you know, a lot of people can do what I do.

And like, one of the most important things is that people want. Like my kind of, my vibe, I'm not going to be like, this is my voice. I'm not going to do like some soft, like own kind of meditative language. It's not, it's not what I do. It's like very science y. I mean, I do coach, like we do troubleshoot and figure out ways to implement this stuff or whatever, but,[00:13:00] liking my voice both like figuratively and literally is, probably the most important thing. So I don't know. I haven't been on social in a while and I also have some issues with how much time we spend on it. And is it an appropriate platform for marketing anyway? I kind of like the like original.

idea behind social media before we had the algorithm learning our behaviors and putting us into these silos and like the echo chamber stuff. So that's where I am just sitting in crisis mode. And I've been just dialing in reframe coaching more than doing the nutrition side because of it. I just like, can't get over this hump.

And I guess that's what comes from, I don't know, being like concerned about. That like being concerned about how I show up in the world for other people. Like this, at the end of the day, it's about service for me. It's about providing a service. So I'm just trying to figure out how to, how to reconcile those [00:14:00] things.

So. That's what's new with me. I got dark real quick, but

Kevin: hey, nothing wrong with that. I don't know if I got dark, but yeah, , there's, I, I was looking for, some direction recently with like my movement, I'll call it. And I, there's this guy on. Instagram, I'm following and I just love everything he says.

And he's, he takes, he takes down people who are like, you can't do this. Or you, if you want the, all the quick fixes and all the, don't eat this, don't eat that. And I just liked his, uh, how he approached it as far as like, no live your life. Consistency, let's work on things and that kind of thing.

I was like debating. I'm like, should I just see what, how much this costs to, train with him or something like that. I ended up going a different route, but and I'm happy for that. But yeah, that was in the back of my mind. Cause I, like what he was putting out there.

Steph: Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's important to view it [00:15:00] from like, is this like someone with the experience and knowledge.

To guide me, or are they just really good at copywriting and influence, right? Because when you see people with multi million followers and stuff like that, it just means that they're good influencers, right? I mean, they might also have a good skill set, but, they're

doing something that's gaining them influence. And I'm just saying that. Influence and followers isn't always indicative of, something that'll be like health promoting or, whatever, but what you're like, that's awesome that you found someone like that. I've started following some fitness people too, that are like, we don't have to micromanage this stuff to be healthy.

In fact, it's not healthy to micromanage a lot of like our, our movement and even our nutrition. Like I don't sell a big like diet or lifestyle change or whatever. It's like. Yeah. Let's dial in these basics and figure out what your body's asking for, you know what [00:16:00] I mean? So, yeah,

Kevin: yeah, yeah. I mean, beware of anything that tells you it's going to happen in a certain number of days or one thing you need to do, or this is, those very.

Black and white type of statements where it's like, the front of every like fitness magazine, like 21 days to rock hard abs, it's like, is it though? Like, okay, it's, I always just go back to habits and that's, how can we focus on just making small changes over time is how anything works literally.

It's how we've done everything in our life. So, how do we, why do we always think, I mean, we always hope, right. We always want that magic pill or that thing that helped that. Just works and fixes us. But you know, we got here through slow methodical change over time. It's going to take some of that as well.

So,

Steph: yeah. And you can do, I mean, that's the whole thing. It's like, there's a lot of unhealthy things we can [00:17:00]do to get a certain body type, right? Like, if weight loss is your focus, like you can just amputate a leg and lose a ton of weight. Right. But like, I wouldn't. say that that's health promoting, for instance.

And, you can white knuckle anything like a 21 day, whatever. But it's like, at what expense? And, I study a lot of this stuff. Like rapid weight loss is a fast recipe for losing muscle. And it's not just like, Oh, I'm not as toned. It's like your heart is a muscle and it's an important muscle.

So we see these people that are like yo yoing. So the on and off and all of that thing, like all of those kinds of things, it's like, They do have like maybe heart problems later in life because the body doesn't like these rapid changes or these quick fixes that you're talking about. And so I love that you're like the habit change guy because that's really the way to do it.

And just like the way you've structured your 75 hard, you said that I really want to make it like a 366 [00:18:00]sustainable, right? Like I'm,

Kevin: yeah. Yeah, I was up at 1 a. m. last night. Don't don't recommend that eating pistachios and grapes and stuff. But you know, it's like a month and a half ago, I was eating candy and chips and that I mean, so it's, I'm not micromanaging things.

I'm trying to make healthier choices over time. And that's why I like, yeah, I need to focus on sleep. But yeah. I know that will come. I'm working on these other things. So it's like bit by bit, just how can I focus on this? And that's, yeah, exactly why I did like, okay, I can do 75 days. Can I do 366? And I don't know yet.

Cause I'm only on day 41. One day. Yeah. Right. This is not a. Exercise fitness, nutrition episode

Steph: not even close,

Kevin: but there's all these habits play in for, for

Steph: everything. So it's all [00:19:00] connected. Yeah. Like the habit, it's like just with alcohol too, it's like everything is just getting to know yourself a little better and what works for you.

And. I mean, I just, I couldn't, I'm, I know we don't like work together for nutrition or fitness, but I'm really proud of your decision to make it like sustainable and committing to the 75 hard, but making it in a way that it would be actually health promoting for you to evolve and adapt it over the course of a full year.

Right? Like having that flexibility is, is really important because like, I love going through a challenge like anyone else, but you know, an 11 PM walk just to get your walk in. I don't know, like maybe you can skip and just never skip two days in a row. Maybe that's how it changes or you rearrange your schedule so that you can get it in earlier or whatever.

So, yeah, I think that you have a really healthy mindset with that. And it's, it's easy for people that have. Alcohol use disorder, prior alcohol use disorder to [00:20:00] like, we always talk about transfer addictions and we're going to do like a sugar episode soon. But you know, sugar is common, but diet and exercises too, and, and.

Just like anything else, we can take that to an unhealthy an unhealthy level. And that's, I mean, honestly, that's a lot of what my nutrition practice is focused around, is making sure we can build these healthy relationships with our bodies, with our food, with our, with our movement and not just become obsessed with the new thing.

Kevin: Yeah. The new thing. . Cause in all of history. Nobody ever thought of it or, whatever it's like, how do, what are the tried and true things? Like, how can we focus on that versus the new thing? Well, it's just, I mean, I'm all for science and, and, I'm all for like when we find that stuff out, but it's just, how is it packaged?

I want to make sure that is it actually science or is it just a gimmick?

Steph: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What was I going to say? Well, there's just, there's [00:21:00] moving to something like a healthy substitution for alcohol, like, or drugs or whatever. That's great. But there's just so much overlap with like eating disorder or disordered eating patterns, which would include like excessive movement too.

And alcohol use disorder. I have a. my Instagram, maybe I should like reshare it. But I, I like walk through like all of the ways that those things overlap. And I know that there's plenty of research that shows that, people with eating disorders are like, X percent, more likely to have like a substance use disorder or something like that.

So I don't know, I'm highly sensitive to it, but then it's also hard to say like, okay, I mean, if you try, it just. It's just another way to escape or numb to some people, and it's just some, another thing to be aware of.

Kevin: Exactly. Yeah. Cause I mean, that's the thing like, Oh, you're, Oh, I'm exercising too much.

Is that really a bad thing? [00:22:00] Well, it could be like, ask yourself that, like, is it, is it that unhealthy? Thing, but.

Steph: When you look for the same signs as you do with alcohol, right? Like, am I like. Not going to restaurants with friends because I don't know if they have food there I can eat or, things like that.

Am I like, I don't know, cutting down or missing out on social time because I don't want to skip my workout class. And it's like, when you look at the centennials, like the people who lived to a hundred years and live well, in their nineties, hundreds, whatever. Community is like the like common underlying thing.

diets all over the place, movement, all of that, all over the place, but having like a strong tribe, like strong community. So, at some point that can shift over from being health promoting activity to, something that's taking you away from your tribe, your community, or like not getting proper rest.

That's another thing. If you're not [00:23:00] like recovering very well, you might not be sleeping enough or eating enough, but there's just like, it's nuanced, just like anything else. Like there is no magic pill and there is no like. One way to even determine if it's healthy or unhealthy, but you know, a lot of people live with that and they're praised because.

It looks like they're just, super duper healthy and, they don't know it's again and how you feel about it too. Right. If you have to miss a workout, how does that make you feel? Like, do you feel like you have to eat less in order to make up for that? Or like, do you have any sort of anxiety with that?

Yeah. So it's complicated. Anyway, again, this is not like a fitness and nutrition podcast. So

Kevin: let's move into, I feel like we should just run with this at this point. But no, let's yeah,

Steph: maybe redirect here. Yeah, let's redirect. I mean, it all started cause you asked what's new with me and it's my existential crisis from sounds like a cult and internet marketing and how I feel about social media.

Hey,

Kevin: nothing wrong with that.

Steph: All right, [00:24:00] let's move into shop talk in this segment. We'll talk about recovery related topics. That's on our mind and yours. We hope to cover the topic from all angles and land somewhere actionable and helpful for you. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, please send an email to podcast at reframe app dot com.

Or if you are a reframe user when you're in the app, you can give it a shake and just let us know from there. And today we're talking about navigating holiday parties. When you're working on your relationship with alcohol. So this is going to release on November 10th. So in the States, that means we have a couple weeks until our Thanksgiving here.

And then obviously we have all the other holidays that happen November and December going into the new year. So, I know this is a time when. That can cause us a lot of stress. And we just released the episode on how to [00:25:00]maintain your like rituals and routines when your schedule is really bonkers. This is just kind of a extension of that.

Like, how do we approach the holidays specifically? So, I think it mostly comes down to what are our major stressors around the holidays and how can we manage those the best. And the first thing I thought of was family. So, my husband's parents are both deceased. And I know for him, he really misses them around his birthday and the holidays in particular.

So, you may be dealing with... you can't be with, even if you, like, I think about COVID and when you can't travel or shouldn't travel or whatever if you just can't be with them for whatever reason, that can spiral you into one of those low moods or in my case, they're triggering because they're family and it's like our families can be, can be difficult.

And a client just said to me, like this [00:26:00] morning that. Something like, I swear that family can, can really piss you off without anyone on the outside even realizing why or something like that. And that's something that really kind of rung true for me.

Kevin: I mean, right, because there's so much, there's so much backstory that nobody knows with that.

So yeah, it makes sense. That's the thing. What is this? That's why this topic is potentially so difficult because everybody's, relationships and and just how we interact with people during the holidays during this time of year. Can be so different. It could be great. This great experience and full of tradition and things that we love.

Or it could be that those tradition traditions and experiences could be things that we don't want to do anymore. [00:27:00]Or thinking about alcohol and and things like that. So yeah, it becomes difficult. Plus you add in the fact that sometimes maybe these are people we haven't seen, we don't see on a regular basis, right?

So they might not know what we're up to and what we're doing, when you come together from all around with family. You know, so it's, it's that expectation coming in of, uh, Oh, Kevin, Kevin likes to drink. So I'm going to bring him this for the whole, this party or something like that, just all the random stuff that, that can come up as a result.

Steph: Yeah. And not everyone wants to share everything with. even their immediate family, but extended family or even friends. Like I, uh, I don't know. I don't talk in detail about how I was drinking and how I felt about it. And. I think that I'm one of the lucky ones who kind of caught it earlier on than a lot of people.

So I don't think it [00:28:00] presented as problematic to most people. And, when I would get together with my family, they're like, here's the problematic part. I would like definitely limit myself around my parents. And then I would go home and, when we were done with the party or whatever, and then I would.

Drink how I wanted to drink and they don't know that they don't need to know that, they know I'm not drinking, but they, they just are like, whatever, like, my sister's never drank. I mean, she's had alcohol, but she's never been a drinker. She's 1 of those who will, like, have a tiniest glass of wine on a holiday some years, so it's not that weird in my family, I guess, to not drink, but I don't want to go into that because.

It's just, it's personal for me. Like I would rather share it with everyone here on reframe who listens to this podcast then then my parents, cause they're still parents and they're probably, I don't want them to worry and think about relapse and then think about like all the stigmas that are out there, right?

Like.[00:29:00] wIthout having the proper education, it's just something I feel like keeping close to my chest. So yeah, just one day I just showed up for like a family dinner with my parents and they bought like the wine that I, that they know I love to drink. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not going to drink today. And it's just like been gathering dust in their closet ever since.

Kevin: Yeah. I Was gonna say, keep it close to your chest, but.

Put it out there for the whole world on a podcast and be like, you just maybe text this to everybody ahead of time and be like, Hey, everybody listens to this and just, yeah. Yeah, we're making that social media posts or just kind of slyly sliding it in a story or something where you say that what you're doing in hopes that people see it or registers, but yeah, it doesn't always do that.

And, and, I always think of. The random, you might be, you might tell people who are close to you or, or are closer, but then you're always going to have that, [00:30:00] Uncle Jimmy coming in out of nowhere. It was like, ah, let's do shots of tradition and, whatever. And it's hard, it's difficult to navigate some of those things and, that's where I kind of learned to make myself scarce at times when I see it coming I gotta, I'm gonna go to the.

Take a walk. Go to the bathroom. I'll be back in five to sixty five minutes. Right.

Steph: Or see you next year. Yeah. Okay. Let's go through these things that stress us out, and then we'll go into the tips that we've prepared, because I think we have some good stuff in here. So, never good at brevity, we are, so family, family stresses us out one way or the other.

Travel in general, if you do have to travel to like for these holiday parties and stuff like that. And of course, like the overwhelm, too much to do, too little time. I recommend going back to our prior episode on maintaining ritual and routine. When your schedule [00:31:00] is just out of control, I think we'll, we cover that pretty well there.

And then the rituals where the rituals, the traditions that we have, I think, especially New Year's Eve always like a big party night and, I mean, Christmas or Hanukkah or whatever, too, it's like, there's always a reason

Kevin: the day before Thanksgiving is like one of the drunkest. Days of the year with the most, DUIs and drunk driving accidents, because it's everybody's home from school or people are coming in to town.

And, it's, what is it called? Blackout Wednesday, I think. And, and these things just, it could be anything like

Steph: that. They create a little life of their own. I don't, I mean, that has to be someone in the alcohol industry who is just like, Hey, let's make the night before. I mean, I understand there's also these other things, like the perfect storm of.

Like college kids home for whatever and visiting family, all that stuff. But like, I don't think that was a thing until it just got [00:32:00] spread around as a thing. And then you feel like drinkers feel obligated to follow through on that thing. Yeah.

Kevin: I think it was always a thing where, you came into town and you knew all your friends from whenever, or, from school or whatever, or we're back in town too, or, and you got together and that's where you went and you went to the bar.

Right. But yeah, over time it obviously. Morphed into a, uh, hashtag probably a call. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, there's, around the holidays, there's, more, more concerned about finances with travel and gifts and things, all that stuff. Just the obligations of whether it's.

Whether it's family or expectations of doing certain things or just all the hey, I have to mail out holiday cards or whatever this year and I have to bake this or that or I have to make this and it's, it's all those things that just add on top of. Our everyday stressors.

And you know what? We might love to do that.[00:33:00] We might love, you might love to create those, those cards or those cookies or whatever. You also don't have to do that too. Like, and then, yeah, and just, just all the, like we talked about, like all the rituals, all the familiar drinking situations that come up, whether it's like, Bigger things like that, like New Year's Eve or just the things that we've kind of created ourselves with friends or, now everybody does friends giving too, and, uh, the just.

Yeah. All of the work parties or, anything like that.

Steph: Yeah. I think about the eggnog when decorating our tree. That was a big tradition for, for me as, as an adult, my parents never did that, but that was something that we started doing. Me and my husband before I quit drinking and it's like, now I do like really fancy things.

Yeah. Hot chocolate [00:34:00] drinks, like that kind of thing, or coffees, like decaf coffee with like a really fancy latte or something like that. So I just replaced it. It was fine. Big cozy mug,

Kevin: still keeps that ritual going.

So those are the, those are the things that just a short list of things that stress us out. So how do we, how do we handle those? What are some of our. Tips there related to that.

Steph: Yeah. So I think once you identify maybe what your biggest triggers will be, and it could be all of them, and I think they probably is all of them to some degree.

But once you identify these like holiday specific triggers, I always recommend getting very, very, very specific, like when you're feeling good before you're in the situation. Write down what you're going to do so you're prepared ahead of time, just before these emotions and triggers happen. So I like using the language of, like, when this [00:35:00] thing happens, I will, and then have some things that you will do.

So, and this is an exercise that Reframe would take you through with regular triggers too, but. I think things are a little bit emotionally charged, a little bit, quite a bit emotionally charged around the holidays with all of these stressors, I think, especially with finances coming into the picture, 2023 is a rough year, blah, blah, blah.

So, if so, like, when. My parents offer me my favorite wine. I will tell them I'm not drinking and ask for a coffee instead or ask or say, Oh, I brought this instead. Like I always bring my own drinks. When. I feel stressed about our financial situation. I will look at our budget and see if there are any ways that I can reduce for a couple of months and if there's anything we can go.

Like anything we can do differently, [00:36:00] right? Like I'm thinking of like a gift swap instead of buying gifts for everyone suggesting something like that.

Kevin: Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah, maybe that gift swap, make sure you let's be specific with it. Like try and try and navigate it to something non alcohol related. But, you talked about plan ahead for triggers and plan through that, and that goes for most things, right, that we talk about.

It's like making that plan, and I think to one of my biggest tips, I guess, just out of the gate is that you don't have to go through all of these things at once. Right? Like, sometimes we stress ourselves out here right now. It's October 26th, right? It's going to come out in early November.

And I remember stressing myself out way ahead of time on, I got to do, I'm going to have to get through Thanksgiving and these, Work parties and Christmas and New Year's and these events that we were doing.[00:37:00] But it was October 26th, I wasn't doing those. And I always think like, I'm going to be different on November 29th, 26th and December 26th.

Like I'm going to have gone through more work on myself and, and more of these things. And just because, and I know we alluded to this in a previous. Episode just because like, we're not perfect or something goes off track, uh, let's say in November doesn't mean like, well, let's just wait till next year starts.

Right. I mean, not, let's not write off the rest of the year, which we can easily have that tendency to do. And just, yeah. What can I learn from that experience? Was it good or bad? Whether it was positive or negative one. And then, yeah, how can I carry that into the next one?

Steph: Yeah, yeah, definitely.

That's a really, really good point to not just, I mean, we're releasing this [00:38:00] before, Thanksgiving in the States so that you have time to prepare for it, but yeah, and no one's ever, like, it's, it doesn't do anyone any good to worry about all of that through the whole end of the year. Right. Like, Like we always say, like, we're all on the same day.

We're all on today. All we really have is now, I mean, plan ahead. Sure. Like we can plan for like anticipate the stuff, but it doesn't mean that you have to like, start getting all worked up because you have Thanksgiving coming up and then you have Christmas and then you have new years and then it's the new year.

And then, before you know it, you're right back here at. October 26th. But I think even for cutback, like I love that language. So like when this happens, I will like, so, when I have whatever my drink allowances for today. So say you want, you only want to have two drinks on like this holiday.

So when I have my two drinks, then I will switch to, and then what you want to switch to. And that can change, right? Like whenever your favorite non alcoholic drink is [00:39:00] like. I do a lot of non alcoholic beer, but not a lot in one sitting. Like I find that one is enough. A lot of times I open a second and it's too much and I'll just switch to water or a decaf coffee, obviously.

But I think that's just a really helpful like kind of sentence structure to go through. And I always recommend writing it down. There's something about physically getting it out of your body that really. Solidifies it. And I know we all learn in different ways, but I find for a lot of people, like the actual physical act of writing it down, it just, I don't know, it just makes it more solid.

Very official. Once it's in writing.

Kevin: Yeah, which, yeah, I'll be doing our first journaling meeting today at in two hours and that'll be one of the, yeah, one of the, the things there is, yeah, writing things down is different than just thinking it like, ah, I don't need to write it down, I thought it through and all that.

Nope. It's different. Like, it might not be how you learn, it [00:40:00] might not be. How as helpful for you as it is for someone else, but it is different and it is a good thing to try. So, all right. No, people

Steph: are really excited about that meeting, by the way. Like I know

Kevin: like this is a first First meeting in a while, like I'm nervous about like, since it's just new Alright, how am I gonna do this?

Still still thinking through it. I have a little bit of time. But yeah

Steph: Yeah, because people like everyone knows the benefits of journaling. Those are well researched and everything. Yeah, but a lot of people have trouble doing it I just do it in my own way. I usually just write down some bullet points and that's enough for me Sometimes that is enough to get the creativity flowing.

Sometimes it isn't I do it in my planner I have like a whole half Like the other page of my planner and just write stuff out. Yeah. But for,

Kevin: for this, like when I said, like, don't have to go through it all at once and all that, like, if you are worried about like the whole holiday season, write it down.

Like, what are you, what are you worried about? What is, what are the things? [00:41:00] Is it, is it that, is it uncle Jimmy at Thanksgiving? Like I said, like, is it, but you could sit there and worry about it, or if you write it down. And go through it and say, like, okay, I have, this will be the next thing that comes up and this is what I like about it.

These are the traditions I like about it. These are, this is what I might potentially have some issues with. But by doing that and processing that, okay, what's, what's after that? But if you get it all out there, it takes away some of that anxiety. It takes away some of that stress that we have because we can look at it and be like, okay, we're.

Can I change some of this work? What can I control? So yeah, I mean, when we say plan and like you said, when blank happens, I will blank like write this stuff down.

Steph: I lost you for a second.

Kevin: Okay. I lost you a little bit before and I always just kind of keep nodding my head and I did too. Yeah. Cause I saw you fine [00:42:00] and then like the last one where I lost you, like, then you immediately started laughing. I was like, oh yeah. you just

Steph: said. See these are the little clips that you need to. Yeah, in front of the show before the intro, people are like, what are these jokers doing? Yeah.

Kevin: Occasionally there's a lag in the video and, or video and audio. And yeah, we, we take it very,

Steph: very seriously.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. I would, if like you came in and like, if you unfroze and you like, you were crying and stuff, I'd be like, all right, we need to maybe redo this.

Cause I don't, I need to, I need to react appropriately to that.

Steph: You're like laughing instead. Yeah. I was like,

Kevin: looked down at my head and laughing. I'm like, okay. Oh, shit. She's crying. She's trying to abort abort

Steph: wrong. Pretend reaction. No, I love that about journaling out what you're worried about too. I take this, I take my [00:43:00] clients through this too, when they're like really nervous about something coming up and I'm like, okay, let's talk about the worst case scenario, like not related to drinking, but like, what are you really worried about?

Cause we are so good at catastrophizing these what ifs. And then when it comes down to it, it's just like, even if the worst case scenario happens, we're all probably still alive and your company is still in business and, it'll, it'll be okay. Like, even with this worst case scenario. So I think like your suggestion to journal that out, like what, Are you nervous about, what are you scared about?

What are you excited for? Is an excellent idea. So plug for Kevin's journaling meeting. If you, if you want to learn how to

Kevin: journal perfectly. Thursdays, noon Eastern.

So let's, let's turn, what's next.

Steph: So I said like, don't host if [00:44:00] possible so you can leave early, you can bring your own drinks, you can come in late, you can leave early. You have a lot more flexibility than if you are hosting. It's one of those things where if you always host this one family meal, you can just say that.

This year isn't a good year for me. Is there any way that we can have this at someone else's house? But, if you are hosting and you must host. Decide all of this ahead of time. Like we talked about this with the rituals and routines too. But you know, enlist help if you, if you can, like you can make it like a potluck style or you can order food from like there's meal prep kits from like HelloFresh and stuff like that, where you can get a Thanksgiving meal.

It's pretty reasonably priced. Local restaurants do it. Buy dessert from a local bakery. Just like Kevin said earlier, just because you like doing it doesn't mean that you have to. So, and sometimes we do have to say no to things that we like doing when it's a matter of protecting our peace or[00:45:00] kind of going off the rails because a lot of times I know for me, I was more of a binge drinker.

So these little things would add up and add up and add up on my shoulders. And I felt like I had the weight of the world on me and no way. To release that unless I had alcohol in my hand. And so my prevention plan is a whole life plan. It's how can that, even when I love baking and cooking, I do, I really do.

We want to host friends giving, we're going to figure out a way to mix it with some homemade stuff and whatever. So. If you're hosting, just try to get creative with that and don't feel that obligation to do everything and do everything perfectly and not ask for help and whatever. And of course, decide ahead of time if you're going to have alcohol or not.

Like you have the authority to make that decision. You don't have to serve alcohol at your gathering. It's, it's not a requirement.

Kevin: Yeah. I'm going to [00:46:00] offer a counterpoint, point counterpoint. Cause I am the opposite. And I, and I think this goes with, find what works for you because I would rather host it.

And and have what I like to call home court advantage or home field advantage, whatever. Right? Because I'm in my comfort zone of my house and I can pour my own drinks into my mug or my glass or whatever that are alcohol free. Or if I'm cutting back, I can control, in a better way how I Get my stuff and I could be distracted.

I can be, I can be like, Oh, I'm cooking. I'm making the meal and I'm doing this and and I'm busy, right? I'm doing stuff versus just sitting there and kind of not having anything to do. Perhaps, So both ways, right? I see it both ways. And I think it's just, what's that? What's that preference?

I can go into my bedroom and hide for 20 minutes if I need to. [00:47:00] I know the lay of the land and and all those things. That's why I've I've always been more of a. I'd rather stay here because once I go out, then I'm like, then I have to get in the door, then I have to go, I have to talk and I mean, not that I don't talk to people when they're in my house.

I'm not just sitting there. Don't bother me. I'm cooking. But it's just different, right? It's, it's more of the, small talk or I'm, I'm that's what I'm there for versus, I'm hosting and having those extra things to do. But like I said, I, I, I've done it both ways.

I see it both ways. And yeah, so, what is that way that works for you? I think is a good question to ask.

Steph: Yeah, well, we are supposed to cover the topic from all angles. So just trying to follow through on our word here. Yeah, I actually check. Yeah. Okay. See you next week. No, I'm actually kind of with you on that.

I think early in sobriety, I [00:48:00] would rather have gone and left. And now that I'm later in sobriety, I prefer hosting. So it, it shifted for me. And. I think a lot of that is just getting for me was getting a handle on how to manage my energy as an introvert and having people in my house was a lot for me.

Like, I was just too kind of raw in the beginning. So having that exit strategy, like, yeah, I could go to my room if I wanted to. But it's still noisy. There's still people there. I don't want to be in my room. I want to be on my couch with my dog and with my true crime show,

Kevin: And I will, I will say from experience too.

that if you do have people over your house, be sure that they depend, whether you're cutting back, whether you're quitting, make sure you have the forethought to think like, okay, if people do bring alcohol or if I have alcohol, where's it going afterwards? Do I want it out of my house? Am I passing it out to people as they walk out the door?

Because you can people just bring that as a [00:49:00] gift without even thinking. So just thinking about that afterwards, cause I know I had a holiday time, my first year and everybody left and even my, my wife and daughter flew to in laws and I was at home and I turned the corner and I was like.

Oh, this is all still here. We just, I totally just didn't pay attention to it until after the fact. And it was kind of like a big stressor at that point. But yeah, just thinking, thinking about that. Cause yeah, where, where does that stuff go? If you, if you need to, I mean, some people fine with it there.

But just knowing that just want to throw that out.

Steph: Oh yeah. That's such a good point. I didn't even think of that. We hosted a pumpkin carving party last week. The, we called it pumpkin Palooza with the Prangleys. sO I baked all of these like apple and pumpkin themed, like fall treats. We had warm apple cider.

And like, I'm fine with people drinking around me, but they did like a pumpkin and Oktoberfest beer [00:50:00] sampling and they had like some. Bourbon to go in the, the hot apple cider and stuff. And on the way out the door, like we had.

So many of these like beers left over and my husband still drinks, but he's like, I don't want all of this like pumpkin beer here. And so we just took like the empty packs and like gave everyone a couple to go. And we, he has a couple here and that's it. I, I actually forgot that we did that until you just mentioned it.

Yeah. I would, and then I have a friend who will sometimes bring over red wine, which was my thing. And I like, once she left, like, like a. She had like one glass and left the rest. I'm like, I can't have that here, yeah. I had to dump it. But then when she comes over and brings it, I'm like, just like, let's package it up and take it home with you or, whatever, like, I don't even want it in the house, I don't want it in the house unopened, that's like my only real boundary.

You know, it's fine if they drink it around me, but

Kevin: just send her this podcast episode when it's done. [00:51:00]

Steph: No, it's fine. Like, she's super respectful of it. I know. I'm kidding. But I mean, that's important to prepare for because, oh my God, it can be so anxiety inducing to see that those leftovers there.

So yeah, if you're hosting, keep all of that stuff in mind, do some shortcuts and these shortcuts aren't because you're incapable. It's because when we save time, that creates space for doing what we need to do to stay grounded and reduce our stress. So, movement and nutrition and sleep and meditation, journaling, whatever it is that you're into, using these shortcuts that I talked about, like, just lowering the expectations for yourself in terms of preparing a meal and preparing for guests and stuff like that is going to open up that space. And, um, and so, lastly, of course, we have all of our maintenance stuff. Well, this includes all of our normal tools, like HALT and playing the tape forward and things like that.[00:52:00]

All of the like trigger preparation we talked about too, but making sure you're checking in on meetings. It might be a good time to enlist a coach if that's in your budget or build an accountability group, something like that. Keep doing your tasks. They don't take that long. Do them, do them with integrity.

Hang out on the forum. Listen to your sober podcasts and all of the regular like personal care maintenance stuff, like getting some movement outdoors, even if it's cold, eating your regular meals, like not showing up hungry or not being so busy cooking all day that you forget to eat. Those are really easy ways to like accidentally overindulge or slip up if you're not looking to drink and then just hydrating.

So maintenance stuff.

Kevin: Yeah. What's your maintenance stuff? Write it down. Oh, no. But but right. What, what are those things that, that, this could be. You're day one and you just downloaded reframe [00:53:00] or you're just listening to this podcast or whatever. And you're like, I don't have maintenance stuff. Well, that's where, dive into the tasks, the forum, the meetings, like, and just.

How, start that process of finding what works for you trying new things. But if you've been doing this for, if you've been on the cutback track, you've been quitting if you've been working on or being alcohol free, what are those things? That have helped you, how can you incorporate those in, I know we have people who are at their, over the holidays, they're at the families and they went for a walk and put their earbuds in and are listening to a meeting just because they, it's like that grounding, like you said what else is there like, do you can, do you have an accountability partner that you can text each other?

Yeah. When you're at these events same thing, the forum, you can go onto our forum. Can you check social media and just, look for, I don't know, what's your favorite positive account or something like that to to [00:54:00] help breathe, breathe, just walk away and breathe. Don't just sit there if you're stressed out with what everybody's doing or what's going on.

But yeah, I love all of your tips there.

Steph: Yeah, I just, I find the world in general to be overstimulating and I'll often say that I used alcohol as a mute button on a world I found to be too noisy and that isn't, I mean, that is probably why I prefer to host now, like host events at my house instead of going.

But I love a good walk with a podcast. Oh my God, that. I mean, I don't know anyone who that doesn't work for. Like I haven't met someone who's like, Oh, I tried that. It doesn't work for me. It's, it's hard to get in that habit, but that was, I mean, that was a huge part of early sobriety for me was I really love, I mean, our podcast is the best, but I really love sober, sober powered.

For a good walk because Gill, [00:55:00] I know we've mentioned her before, but Gill, her like solo podcasts are, she was a huge fan of the rage walk. And so she made these podcasts to be like 15, 20 minutes. And she's like, Hey, my podcast is perfect for a rage walk. Just. 15, 20 minutes, stomp it out and learn some, some science about how your body is reacting to alcohol or whatever.

She has great episodes. They're just these mini clips, not like us, they're just short episodes. It's like, what's the importance of rituals or. Why do I drink the way I do and not everyone else does or how to make it through the holiday party? Probably, so I'll just plug her pod real quick.

Yeah.

Kevin: cAuse it's just, I love those options too with like short episodes, long episodes. So. Finding those podcasts, like, cause you could have, do a short sober powered clip or you could go with a reframeable one, or you could go and listen to a two hour Huberman lab or, something like that.

What, what do you need in that moment? Or [00:56:00] moments. Yeah. And just find that and find those ones that you like.

Steph: All right. Are we feeling good about people feeling prepared for this holiday season?

Kevin: Yeah, I mean. Again, it's just plan ahead. Yeah. And we can get into the tip or I'll say tips of the week.

Cause I'm going to throw rapid fire, throw a couple out here, but but I mean, right. Planning and thinking through. These are these are things that we have done before. Typically, right? I mean, we've we've done these holidays over and over again throughout our life. Times change. We could be dealing with grief, maybe, or we could be, maybe we're farther away this time and we're doing it alone or we're doing it.

We're closer. We're doing it together. It could be different. But in general, we typically kind of have a feel for How we might go about these in the past and and know that [00:57:00] this is, it could be showing up different. So how can we do that? You know how we have to answer that question and and try it.

And then see how it works and then adjust and, and, keep going.

Steph: Yep. I love it. All right. Let's move into tip of the week, but tips of the week where Kevin's going to give you something you can take action on to move your life forward on this topic. So what do you got for us, Kevin? Yeah.

Kevin: So, I mean, I'll, I just. Through a bunch of stuff down, but you know, a lot of the same things like, making sure you have alcohol free options whether you're going somewhere or you're at your own place showing up late, leaving early, those are ways to and actually planning, I think your window is good.

You say, hey, it doesn't always work out right, but having that thing where I'm going to go for two hours, I'm going to go for three hours or whatever, and having that thought about the exit strategy could be helpful just to, if you need it to condense that time and get [00:58:00] out, Sharing with others what your plan is, is always a good option if you can do it just to kind of take away that, the, the questions or anything, when you get into that place, that's not always something we want to do or we're comfortable in doing, but, I always like to tell people to think about it.

If there are some, as long as you, if you have somebody that you can tell Wherever, whoever you're going to be with that even one person can be helpful. Uh, bring a coffee. This is one of my favorites that I would show up to places with coffee. I would go like for driving someone's house. I would go out of my way to stop somewhere and grab a coffee because, walking in with that in my hand, it helped me kind of get in the door, get, get through the, Hey, what can I get you to drink? And be like, Oh, I got, nobody's going to tell me. Ever to don't, Oh, you don't do that. Like here, let me take that and throw that away. Like, no, don't touch my coffee.

Now they might say, Oh, do you want something in [00:59:00] it? And be like, no, this is really good at the way it is. I'm going to, I'm going to keep this. But it gets you in a door, it gets you settled. It gets you, you can even sit there with a basically an empty coffee cup at that after a while and just pretend to sip it if you want but that 20 to 30 minutes perhaps that you get in the door and you get comfortable and you're talking with people and all that people, people relax then and like you and others where, you're not going to get perhaps bombarded and be like, Oh, do you want, can I get you something to drink and be like, Oh yeah, you know what?

I'll get it. I'll get up and go and get something that I want then. Yeah. But just little tricks like that, like, where can you incorporate that in? Take breaks, obviously. And then lastly, I'll say. Be, remember to be selfish over the holidays, uh, meaning what do you need to take care of yourself in that positive way?

Being that positive, positively selfish because you might get worn out and you might be more tired. You might be, need more rest or to take more [01:00:00] breaks with things or, just what is that that you need and make sure that you ask yourself that and plan that in too. Because if we forget and we try and just do everything that we've always done, it's going to wear us out.

I remember back to back work parties my first year or two, and it was like a Wednesday and a Thursday. And, I didn't drink it either, but I was bombarded with questions at both because why? You're not drinking? Like, cause. Those were the, those were the times when, when I shined. So, it's like you had, it's so much mental energy went in to me kind of saying no or whatever.

And I should have left earlier than I did typically. And I should have practiced some of these things, but you know, it's learning. I had to learn it the hard way, I guess. But I was like, I remember waking up Friday and luckily I took off work because. I slept for like, I feel like two days just cause the mental drain that I had now, not everybody's like that.

But planning for it, making sure you, like you said [01:01:00] before, halt. Am I hungry, angry, lonely, tired? Whether going into an event or, or leaving it or, or, afterwards, do I need to eat something beforehand? Yeah, they're going to have food there. Yeah. But maybe I should just eat something just to make sure I'm good.

Maybe I should take that nap before I go. And you can't do all these things all the time, but and remember to play the tape forward, like you said, too, as part of that, how am I going to feel if I. Do this the way I want to do it here. The way I'm planning it. How am I going to feel?

How have I felt in the past when going this different direction?

Steph: I love that. I love the bring the coffee because you're so right. It's like you're bombarded as soon as you get in the door. What can you get, like, what can I get a drink and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, Oh, you're not drinking.

And then the questions and it's just like, Oh my God, now I have my coffee. And then, maybe I'll get something a little later. And then, like you said, later, you're sitting on the couch. Someone asks if you want a drink, I want to stretch my legs. I'll go grab something, or you can just

Kevin: say, I'm good, right?

No, I'm good right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [01:02:00]

Steph: Any of that. And yeah, you're talking about the back to back work parties too, just made me think of, if there's any way that you, you can figure out how to reduce that scheduling burden, like I know if, if you're married and you have kids and then like both sides of the family want to see, it's like, can you do one the night before and one the day of, or the day after or whatever, spread it out.

But like the whole, like. Two Thanksgiving's thing. That's a lot of pressure. Even as a drinker, I don't think I would have wanted to do that. So, try to get creative with, with that kind of thing, like conserving your energy, protecting your peace, like you said, okay. Very good tips. Kevin,

Kevin: that's, I just wanted to, sorry, and this even more, like I wanted to talk about that.

Cause like, yeah, we used to, I'm in Ohio now. We both of us are from Pennsylvania and, family back there. And so we would go back all the time and we would have to do two or three, thanksgivings or holidays, whatever the [01:03:00]holiday was. But I think making sure check back in with your, why, right?

What's the reason that you're doing this? Because ultimately like everybody else might have good intentions, , but they don't necessarily have your best intentions, in mind. Everybody has their wants and people want to see you or people expect you to do this or whatever, but just because they want that just because, doesn't mean that.

That's what's best for you. So how can you say no to things? How can you leave early? How can you, explain to people what you're doing or come up with that reason why you're not drinking anymore? Or you're not drinking at all You know that night or whatever But just remember that, this is for you and you're gonna get pressure from outside but just remember why you started this because ultimately that's hopefully Something that can carry you through these types of situations.

Because like I said, [01:04:00] people have maybe good intentions, but they don't necessarily have your best intentions at heart. Because they feel like maybe you should do it a different way, right?

Steph:

Yeah. Okay. Let's wrap it up, Kevin.

Kevin: Yep. All right. Well, all right. Where are we at? Eh, this wasn't the longest, it wasn't the shortest though either.

But that's it for the Reframeable podcast for this week. Thank you for listening to this episode. Brought to you by the Reframe app Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. if You have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app. com or if you're in the reframe app, give it a shake and let [01:05:00] us know that way. aNd I will plug one more thing.

If you go into the reframe app on your discover tab in courses. There is a holiday course out there from last year that I did. So feel free to check that out, some videos and all that. So a lot of the, some of the things that we talked about here are going to be on that. But yeah, it's a five day course, I think.

So just plugging that as well. But I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode. Thanks, Steph.

Steph: Thanks, Kevin. This was long, but not five days long. Yeah.

Kevin: And the course isn't five days long. Of course. I mean, it's, it is longer though. And I, some of the feedback is like, yeah, there's eight minute videos in here.

I'm like, yeah, I'm, I'm long winded. Apparently never knew that about myself.

Steph: Oh my God. Eight minutes. Oh, that's what social media is training us to. [01:06:00]

Kevin: We need short six second reels so can just watch it and move on and keep scrolling.

Steph: Yeah, you have to entertain and educate and motivate.

And yeah, all within like 10 seconds. It's awesome.

Kevin: I'll recircle them back to our earlier conversation about. Oh my God. I know. All right.

Steph: It should just be an episode of me bitching about social media.

Kevin: Hey, I'm sure people will listen and connect with that greatly.

Steph: Oh, you're still recording. Yep. I thought you stopped recording

Kevin: after I said bye, Kevin.

This is all going in.

Steph: Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go journal this away.

Kevin: I like it. All right. All right.

Steph: Talk later. Bye. Bye.