Joy Rumore - Where you water it will grow!

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Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass.

This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the reframe app.

My co host is Steph Prangley. Steph is a nutritional therapy practitioner. She has a virtual private practice called the Sober Rebellion and is also a Thrive Coach here at Reframe. In this episode of the Reframeable podcast, we talk with Joy. Joy is a wife and mother [00:01:00] of two kids living in Tampa, Florida.

She enjoys spending quality time with her family and long distance ultra marathon and marathon running. She enjoys living her life alcohol free and all of the benefits that come along with it. This includes substituting chaos for a more peaceful and calmer mindset, authentic quality time with family and friends, and waking up with a clear mind.

You can connect with Joy on Instagram @saucesobriety. So without further delay, let's go talk with Joy. Hey Joy, thanks for being on the show today. How's everything going with you?

Joy: Everything's going great. Thank you for having me today.

Kevin: Yeah, uh, well, welcome. And we just want to, uh, maybe just Launch right into it. If you want to share a little bit about your story, uh, you know, what brought you to reframe or anything before that too, you want to share with us today.

Joy: Okay. Well, like I said, I'm so grateful to have a space to come to where I can share my stories and my struggles. And I know that I won't be judged. The [00:02:00] reframe community is a very safe space where everybody shares a lot of pretty intimate things. A lot of my closest friends don't really even know my story.

And as a matter of fact, when I told my husband I was going to be on a podcast and tell my story, he said, I didn't really know that you had a story. And the truth is I wasn't really struggling, but I knew that I was spending too much time drinking. Every morning I'd feel like crap only to repeat the vicious cycle over and over again.

Uh, secretly I've been wanting to stop for at least a decade and I'd go to church every weekend and I would pray that I wouldn't drink again. And by time we would have dinner. You know, that evening I'd be ordering a glass of wine and it would start all over again. I would actually pick out a place, like if we were going to go to Chipotle, I really wouldn't want to go to Chipotle because they didn't serve wine or, you know, Bob Evans doesn't have any alcoholic beverages on the, on the menu.

So I didn't want to go to any of those places. So I'll start kind of with a little bit of a timeline. I took my first [00:03:00] sip of alcohol when I was in eighth grade. I went to Uh, party at a friend's house. They were, it was an adult party and they had a lot of alcohol and I remember drinking some Sprite and vodka and just staring at the fan like, wow, this feels crazy.

It was the first time I'd ever taken a sip and had a buzz. And, honestly, I was scared at that moment that I wasn't going to come back to like normalcy. I didn't know what it felt like to be drunk. And I really didn't like the feeling. In high school, I never drank. I would stay home on Friday nights watching, uh, TGIF.

With like Urkel and Full House. And my mom would always ask me like, why didn't you go hang out with your friends? And I didn't want to go to field parties. Cause that's what they did where I lived in at my high school. So I never really felt like I really wanted to drink, but I always just wanted to feel normal and that I could fit in. I never really hit a rock bottom. I didn't have any DUIs, or crashes, but that's only because I got away with it for so long. In 2005, right before I got married, I [00:04:00] really, I don't know why, but I really picked up my drinking.

I remember one night going to my husband's gig and I was drinking vodka and Red Bull. And I was like very manic. It was. Probably the scariest time that I, I had ever experienced with drinking. And my husband's a drummer. I would go to a lot of his gigs and drink all night and then fall asleep in the car around three, drive home at five, go to bed.

So it was like a lot of Friday and Saturday nights that I would stay up late drinking and do it again the next weekend. My husband's support while drinking was supportive and my husband's support when quitting drinking was supportive. He never thought that I had a problem. The day that I quit drinking, I was coming back home from California, and I'll get to that story, but I was coming back home from California and I said, I, I quit drinking and he was like, like forever?

I'm like, yeah. And he said, I don't know how I feel about that. He really didn't think that I had a problem. So I was a little bit [00:05:00] nervous about not having his support, but Ever since that day, I've had his support a hundred percent.

I remember on our one year anniversary, after we got married, we took a cruise. It was a one week cruise. We get on the cruise and ordered a drink and I think we got like. A double something and it was 50 or 60.

It was super expensive. And I was like, there's no way that I'm going to be able to drink like this for a week. So the first port that we got off at, we rented scooters, drove to a liquor store with some empty water bottles, poured the clear liquid into our water bottles and got back on the scooters, brought them back on the ship.

So that was how we were able to drink, uh, inexpensive rate on a week long cruise.

Steph: I was just curious because you said that you first sipped alcohol in eighth grade. You felt scared and you didn't like it and then you kind of abstained through high school too, like, what made you start picking it up again? I mean, was it mainly to fit in? Like, how did you get past that feeling [00:06:00] of, being scared and feeling kind of out of control?

Yeah,

Joy: I think when I took my first sip, I was really scared because my parents, they, they never really had drinking problems. They didn't experience the depth of the drinking, I think, that I did. So I was probably more scared of getting busted. And then in high school, it was really who I was hanging out with and just trying to fit in.

And I'd go to clubs and stuff. And so like after doing it a little bit and feeling uncomfortable, it just becomes kind of normal. It's just kind of what you did. And, you know, before we go out, we're going to catch a buzz. And before we do anything, you'd pretty much try to, I'd always try to pregame because I was so nervous.

Probably had a lot to do with anxiety.

Steph: Yeah. I was a big pre gamer too. So your husband never thought that you had any issue with it. Does he drink the same way that you did?

Joy: No, Mike, uh, he can take it or leave it. Honestly, I think I've seen him drink twice [00:07:00] in the, I'm thinking about 15 months now in the 15 months that I've drank, I think I've seen him drink twice.

And it's only because we went out with another couple and for him to make them feel comfortable, he had a drink and even my friends, they had like a drink or two drinks, but he, he doesn't really have any issue with drinking at all.

Kevin: Yeah, I actually made my wife drink like the first outing we went through, which she doesn't really drink.

She doesn't have issues. She doesn't, she'd rather have a Diet Coke, but I'm like, we're going here. This is like my first time going out. I'm like, And we were invited to like a bowling night, which we never did. And, you know, I'm not good at bowling, but I'm like, I'm going to go to the bar and get you a drink and get myself like a Diet Coke or whatever.

But I want to feel like normal, but I need to have that action. I need to get you something so that it's not weird. Yeah.

Joy: Yeah. And so that your friends can feel comfortable and they can order something. Cause if I order a Diet Coke and then he orders a Diet Coke, they'd be like, eh, you know, they want a drink and then [00:08:00] they really don't have a problem.

So it's not an issue. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin: And the issue I think in general that I hate is like the fact that they feel uncomfortable because you're not drinking. Right. And that's something that people need to, I don't know. We all need to get over like, Oh, I don't want to drink by myself. I'm like, I'm drinking.

I got this. It's, it's fine. Like, let's just talk. That's the whole point of this. Right. But yeah, that is, that is a hurdle for sure. I love how you said that he's like, Oh, I didn't really know you had a story. And I think about that a lot too. Like I think about myself, I'm an accountant, right? I'm, I'm, I just, I'm an accountant and I drank and I went to soccer games on the weekends for my kid and stuff like that. And it just is pretty mundane. But, you know, I mean, everybody has a story, right? Everybody has those thoughts and feelings that have, uh, that, like you said, we hold secretly, uh, for, for many years perhaps. And yeah, that's part of the story, right? I mean, it's all.

It's all [00:09:00] part of it. So yeah, I mean, I think if anybody thinks like, well, I'm not bad enough, I, or I'm, I'm not at that point, or I don't have a problem or whatever. And I'm not saying you do, I'm just saying like, you know, you can choose at any point in time to be like, you know what, this isn't serving me.

Easier said than done, right?

Steph: Yeah. So yeah. And let's like, normalize not having a rock bottom. You know, I think that's exactly like, that's part of my story. It's part of your story, Joy, where it's like, you didn't have some. There wasn't some huge, big, like, revelation that made you want to quit drinking.

It didn't seem to be problematic in your marriage. Your life wasn't falling apart. You know, you just realized it was taking up too much space and you didn't want to do it anymore. Yeah. So, you know, and we interrupted you, so, you were talking about when you decided to quit drinking, you were on your way home from California.

So let's pick up there.

Joy: Okay. So, going a little bit back, uh, before California, me and my sister went on [00:10:00] a music festival, to a music festival in Georgia, and my sister had already planned on quitting to drink. She said, as soon as we leave this music festival, I'm going to finish this book. It was Alan Carr's Easy Way to Quit Drinking, and I'm going to quit drinking.

And I was like, all right, I'm going to do it too. But like deep inside, I didn't believe that I was going to do it. I was just saying I was going to do it. And we went to the music festival. That's, that was a whole debacle. I got really drunk one night and told my husband, I need to go lay down in the car and take a nap.

And it was like, I don't know, three o'clock in the afternoon, but I had to go take a nap because I had drank too much and he gave me the keys and I kind of wandered around the festival. I never made it to the car. I ended up sitting up on a hill at the music festival and I listened to a song or two and played on my phone and then I went to go find him and he's like, Oh, I thought you went to go take a nap.

Oh, I couldn't really remember even a few minutes prior. No, I never, I never took a nap. I just kind of like walked around and I lost the car keys [00:11:00] in Georgia. To his truck. So inside the truck was also our Airbnb keys. I had my sister, my brother in law with me. So I felt like such a jackass because here I am like holding everybody up from going to sleep after we spend this time at the music festival.

My husband is super stressed out about losing the keys to his truck. The next day was Sunday. So all the shops were closed. We couldn't get a spare key. We checked the loss and found we had, it was just. It's crazy. And I'm like, just because I drink, this is what happened. Thank God the morning, uh, after that Sunday morning, the festival called us and they had found our keys.

So it all worked out in the end. But we were like, we're going to have to tow the truck home or we're going to have to like wait till Monday and get an, uh, a hotel for an extra night and like through this whole thing out to try to get back home. So it was just like, Oh my gosh. So then my sister quit the next day and we're 35 days apart in sobriety.

I. Was going to my, one of my best friends bachelorette party in California where there was 13 girls spending the [00:12:00] weekend in an Airbnb and I'm like, there's no way that I'm not going to be able to drink at a bachelorette party with 13 girls. So I had a really fun time in the back of my head. I knew like, this is the, like literally counting down the days, like this is the last days that I'm ever going to drink for the rest of my life.

So. We had a great time on the way home on the airplane. I finished Alan Carr's easy way to quit drinking. I wrote in my journal cause they talk about a little green monster, like the voice in your head. I wrote about that. I shed a few tears and said goodbye to red wine, never to drink it again. And I have never drank red wine again.

Steph: That's amazing. That's like, It's so funny that you were at this bachelorette party and you're like, kind of excited for it to be over so you could quit drinking it like that's the vibe I got from you on that where it was like you were already ready to quit drinking, but you just you weren't ready to like navigate a weekend in California at a bachelorette party without alcohol.

You're just like in [00:13:00] this little limbo. That's what it sounded like to me. It really was be soon

Joy: I went to bed early because I also, she'll listen to this podcast, but I also had a little bit of jet lag. So I was tired every night by like eight o'clock plus we had been drinking like all day. So at like eight o'clock I'd be like, okay, I'm going to bed.

And you know, I went to bed and I'd wake up early and all right, there's another day down. There's another day down. Like the day after tomorrow is like the last day I'm ever going to drink again. So it was, it was kind of like a countdown and like a say goodbye. And a little bit of part of me was like, I don't know how you're going to do this, but you're just going to have to go through the motions until it becomes normal.

And it's pretty normal

Steph: now. That's so cool. Your story about the music festival kind of cracked me up with like losing the keys, because, I mean, I know you blame your drinking, but if I would have gone through that, I would have been like, thinking it was just some kind of weird coincidence or something like that.

Like, I would not have blamed that on the alcohol use. I would have been like, Oh, I'm such like a ditz or something, like losing these keys at [00:14:00] this festival. Like what an idiot, you know, I wouldn't have tied it to drinking until like long after I quit drinking. So I didn't say that

Joy: out loud to anybody.

Just that was just in my head like, Oh, no,

Steph: but still, yeah, I think that's impressive.

Kevin: And who knows if they were thinking it too, like, you know, but no, I mean, cause it could have happened to any of them. Right. Any of the people or anyone really yeah, I got, I, when you're talking about the best red party I got, like, I don't know, I had anxiety right away because you were like the last days I'm ever going to drink.

And that thought sometimes in our head, it's like, woo, we're going for it. And, uh, we are going to just. Got to drink everything. So, it's finished and then we'll be done. Cause that can be not a good, uh, situation too. I know I've done that many times.

Steph: Yeah, the last supper thing.

Yeah.

Joy: Yeah. It was like, I am in the [00:15:00] back of my head. I just have to get through the uncomfortableness.

So I kind of like knew that it was not going to be easy at first, but the longer I get away from it, the easier it will get. And that's, that's really been how the entire, you know, journey has gone for me so far.

Steph: I mean, I know you said you used Alan Carr's book. I used that to quit smoking, like, years ago.

I'm, like, a big fan of his work, but did you already know about the ReFrame app? Like, was your sis already on ReFrame, or did you discover that after? I

Joy: think she joined ReFrame between, you know, the time she quit and that 35 days. So I, I didn't, I don't think I joined until the day that I quit. Like, Oh, I'm going to need some backup, something to help me get through this.

I didn't really know all how wonderful reframe is and all the, all the tools that it has on it. The meetings alone some of my favorite friends are on there. I look forward to seeing them every single day and [00:16:00] I'll go on every meeting. I don't care. I like, I like being there for my friends.

If they're going through something, if I'm going through something, it's such a beautiful community where everybody really just comes together and it's like so supportive of one another. And I just love it.

Steph: I downloaded reframe cause I wanted like an app to track days. Like I didn't know what, it was just the first one that popped up when I searched on like on the app store. So I really lucked out with that cause I didn't, I just wanted something to count my days and maybe some like motivational quotes or something like that.

So it's obviously expanded into. Part of my work now, but but yeah, I mean, really cool that, I don't know that we have that resource and access to all of these people that are going through something similar. So we don't feel alone. We always feel supported here. Yeah.

Joy: Yeah, it's funny. Since then I've had two friends.

Reframe that are really good friends and, uh, someone else who has also quit drinking, but he hasn't, he hasn't joined reframe yet. [00:17:00]

Kevin: When you hear in the, in the meetings and, and elsewhere about how like, you know, somebody who's having success, it's like, yeah, I'm just scrolling and it popped up or I got that, I got an email or I got, uh, Uh, you know, the algorithms just, you know, kind of guided me to it.

I didn't know I was searching for that, but I'm like, well, okay, I'll just download it and, and from there, you know. It's like, Oh, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff in here that can be helpful. But yeah, but, but then it goes into, okay, well then you have to do it, right? Then you have to work on this.

And so you downloaded reframe, you got home, you not, I mean, not in that order, right? You got home, you read the book, you, you, you got reframe, you had your sister, uh, you know, your husband questioning, you know, forever, forever, ever. And, and, and then how did [00:18:00] you start out? Like, what was your, you know, first 30 days first, you know, how, how was the early, early on and, uh, time and what did you find useful?

Joy: Early on, I really stayed home a lot. I had to work on getting comfortable to go out and really into public because everything that we would do kind of included alcohol, going to football games, going to a movie. I would Bring alcohol into it. Going out to dinner. So I really just stayed home for the first couple months.

I worked on puzzles a lot. I would work on painting. Adult coloring books was like my go to. It was really a time for me to just think. While coloring, I'm working through problems or just like a time for my mind to be quiet and just focus on something other than drinking.

My habit was coming home from work, pouring a glass of wine, starting dinner. Even cleaning the house included drinking wine, and it was kind of like, I was isolating myself by doing those chores and stuff. So since I've [00:19:00] quit drinking, I really don't enjoy cooking anymore. I really don't enjoy cleaning anymore.

It's really a chore now, but I wouldn't take it back or anything. So the first few months I just stayed home, and then kind of just started branching out and, and had to get used to being uncomfortable until I got comfortable. Uh, went out to dinner with some friends. We went to a place called fishbone where it was kind of like a Chipotle.

It didn't include alcohol. And I would be the one to recommend places like that. And then just branching out. to

Kevin: say, are you Chipotle's biggest customer now? No,

Joy: no, no. I can go anywhere now. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just started breaking out and getting, you know, every, every time I would go to a friend's party, it was like, okay, this might be a little bit uncomfortable, but. Everything that I challenged myself and conquered, I would think of it as like another gold star on my badge.

Like, okay, you conquered that. And the next time you do it, it's going to be just a little bit easier. And then it's going to be easier. And now it's. Everything's kind of normal. There's, [00:20:00] it doesn't feel weird anymore. It's like kind of the new, the new thing.

Steph: You have like such good advice in there that I'm not even sure you realized, like, it was kind of loaded with awesome advice, for newcomers. I mean, kind of withdrawing for the first one to two months, I would say I did that too. Mostly cause I had some. Really bad fatigue as I was, you know, kind of recovering, but I know you did the puzzles and I know like coloring books are still part of your thing, but just recommending Having these like to do's that help quiet your mind But don't completely tune you out right like sure you can sit down in front of the TV and kind of numb out that way But it's really smart that It's really smart to Kind of work through those problems in the background with a coloring book or painting or something like that So you're not completely tuned out, you know what I mean?

So gardening would be another good example of that. Something where your your brain isn't [00:21:00] exactly active. Like, if you're trying to learn a new skill or doing self help books or something like that. I feel like there's only so much of that we can do before we need to go and give ourselves some space to...

Implement it or something like that. So I love the coloring idea for that because you're like half focusing on that. And then in the background, your brain can kind of go through a lot of this healing stuff where you're not actively thinking about it, but I'm sure you had some enlightening moments in there.

Joy: I think at first too, I, I told myself be obsessed with being alcohol free, like everything you do, just be obsessed with it. Cause You can change, you can really reframe your mind. So it's like, I'm gonna listen to podcasts. I'm gonna listen to the books. I'm gonna go on meetings. I'm gonna do all these things and honestly, the thought of alcohol makes me sick now.

I think it's gross. I think it's chemicals in your body. I don't want to be unhealthy. I don't look at alcohol the same that I did before. Running is [00:22:00] great for me. That's where I do most of my problem solving and a lot of the times I run with friends. But when I run alone, that's really when I'm able to work through a lot of problems or a lot of things that You know, what's bothering me, why am I feeling this way?

And at the end of the run, I'm a totally different person than before I went in.

Kevin: Yeah. I was going to ask you about that. Cause I knew you, I knew you were, I'll say a big runner. I don't know. Uh, uh, I think that's safe to say, right. And, and I was thinking the same thing anytime I, you know, used to run or go for a walk or, or things like that, where you could just get into your body and then that allows your mind to kind of have that.

space, just getting out and moving a little bit with whatever gardening, running, walking, you know, doing those things, uh, and, and focusing on stuff like that can be a great way to kind of unlock some thoughts that, you know, can help and, and have you work through those things, kind of put you in that flow state.

Steph: Yeah. Something else you said that I really want to highlight because you kind of, [00:23:00] you're talking through this progression. So. it is now compared to when you first gave up alcohol, right? So you said I kind of withdrew the first couple months and then you talked about recommending places like going out to eat with friends that didn't serve alcohol.

Like that was your next step into socializing. So, you know, you're used to drinking with these girlfriends or whatever. You just pick a place that doesn't have alcohol. And then you like keep stepping up into scenarios that Would be like maybe more and more tempting, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm and I don't know, I think it's really smart to ease into it that way.

Joy: The place that we went to does have the alcohol behind the glass where they serve like little servings of wine. And, uh, I don't think that they'd go to a place that was completely alcohol free. I mean. Maybe, but they prefer not to. And I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable either.

But it wasn't someplace that was like a bar or like a nightclub. I'm, I'm not going to those kinds of things. I'm not staying up late anymore. [00:24:00] I'm going to bed early. But

Kevin: yeah, I like, uh, you know, you said being, being obsessed with being alcohol free and, you know, I, I look at it. I just shared about this, uh, in a meeting.

But basically, whether you're, whether you're looking to. Cutback, whether you're looking to quit, whether you're going to be alcohol free forever for a month or anything like that, be a little obsessed about it, because if you don't, it's easy for it to just be like, Oh, that didn't work, right? I mean, if you're not like, actually focus on it and try and don't be scared of trying and and making a mistake or, or slipping or, or whatever, because, you know, just keep thinking about how long.

That you've been doing this thing and when you go about it a different way, it's going to be tough, but, but learn something about it. Like give yourself that opportunity to be a little obsessed with it. And again, if you're cutting back, if you're quitting, whatever it is, like [00:25:00] go all in and see like, okay, how can I approach this?

Okay. My, my goal tonight is to have X number of drinks. How am I going to do that? How am I going to do that with where I'm going? Should I go to the club? Should I just go, you know, go to a restaurant? Should I do this? Should I do that? And the same thing with being alcohol free. Am I, you know, Oh, take too much.

I took the same thing. I took the same break in the beginning and be like, I'm going to pick and choose where I go out. And just kind of keep to myself for a while, uh, yeah, but you can't always do that. Obviously. I mean, if you had a wedding coming up, right, you're probably going to go with someone close or, you know, that type of thing.

But to the extent that you can control it, recognize that, you know what, those people, those things will still be there. I need to focus on this right now and just give yourself that chance to do

Joy: that. Speaking of weddings, I've, I've gone to two weddings since since I quit drinking in the first one, you know, here's this wedding coming up and I'm super excited for my friends are getting married and I can't wait, but there's a [00:26:00] little bit of a pit in my stomach like, Oh, this is going to be so hard.

There's open bars. Okay. You can do this. I can get through this. And I did. I felt a little bit uncomfortable, but the second one that I went to was the same scenario. It was actually at the same exact place. And I had a great time. I was able to dance on the dance floor, I was able to like, felt like my mojo was back.

It felt so good and I was so happy. But I had done it once before. And I was like, okay, what's the takeaway from this? Okay, it's going to be a little bit uncomfortable. And I, I tried to, I just felt super anxious. You know, and of course a drink would take that away instantly, but that wasn't an option.

So it's like, okay, well you have to sit with being anxious for a little while. What can you do to help? I remember I had an iced tea in my hand and someone came up to me and they're like, Oh, what are you drinking? I'm like, iced tea. Oh, a Long Island iced tea? No, just an iced tea. And then the second wedding that I went to, I ended up getting a tonic and lime.

So it kind of looked like a drink. Not that I want to look like I'm drinking to anybody, but it made me feel a little bit more [00:27:00] comfortable. Because nobody was going to ask me what was in my cup because it actually looked like a drink. So maybe that helped. I don't know, but it got me through the wedding and I was definitely a lot less anxious at the second one.

Steph: Wait, so how many days alcohol free were you on the first, like the first and second?

Joy: So they just had their first wedding anniversary, uh, September 9th. So three months was my first one. And then I think it was, Like around eight months was the second wedding.

Steph: Got it. Okay. So do you think like the practice in the first one helped or was it just like you said, the second one you were able to kind of do it like a normal wedding, right?

Like you were dancing and everything like that. So you think the first one helped because you were able to practice or just because you were further along and more used to being alcohol

Joy: free? Yeah, probably just having a lot of more, a lot more tools in my toolbox a lot more time under my belt. I had gone to a couple concerts and honestly, going to a concert too is another thing.

I looked around, I drink the liquid death, and I look around in the [00:28:00] crowd and I'm like, there's not that many people drinking. I mean, it was, it was a lot less than I thought it was when I was drinking. I'm like, there's a lot of people here also drinking water when before I thought nobody gets up. Nobody pours water at a, at a concert.

No, a lot of people actually do. And concerts are so much more fun drinking water. I remember all of them. I love all of them.

Kevin: It's a big difference. Cause we, yeah, uh, I just took my daughter to a concert two days ago and we walked in. And we went to our seats and the first band started and then we kind of walked around.

She, she used the restroom. I checked out the merch booth, but there was a long line and we went back in and watched the band and that was it. Like I didn't sit and I didn't need water. I didn't need any of that. I just, we just sat there and enjoy the concert. Didn't have to wait in one line, didn't have to do any of that.

And it was kind of, we left and I'm like. I didn't spend any money here. I just went in, enjoyed the show and I left and it was [00:29:00] weird. Cause usually, you know, I probably could have used a Red Bull or something like that, uh, but I was like, I'm not waiting in line. And, but it was like that thing, like, I didn't need to, and I saw people in front of me, like constantly getting up.

This woman was carrying, you know, five beers, like three different times, like in the little holder back to her seats and constantly getting up and missing songs and stuff like that. And you're like,

Joy: you just missed that awesome song finale. You just missed the finale, getting a beer.

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was like, exactly.

And I remember because he, uh. He played a song that was just like off the cuff. It wasn't on the set list. And he just, uh, you know, did that. And it was like, yep, miss that story song. And so yeah, I mean, it is interesting to see how, uh, those things can change. Do you feel like, why did you dance to the second one?

I'm not the first one.

What changed between there? I'm just curious. Cause you know, I was, I was, I'm not a dancer, [00:30:00] so

Joy: I'm not a dancer either. I just the first one I was super anxious. The second one, I was super proud of myself and super like you're freaking doing this and just was able to let loose and be, I was just so happy, just so happy to be there and be present and like, I don't know, it wasn't a different music list, both, both weddings had beautiful music, great music to dance to, I was just a little bit uncomfortable and then I was not uncomfortable.

Kevin: Yeah. I wasn't sure. Yeah. I was just curious if it was anxiety, if it was kind of like that in your head. And I shouldn't have said, I, I'm not a dancer. I'm not a person who dances as a different dancer and just dancing at a wedding. But anyway, uh, yeah, I was just curious, uh, cause you know, I think it's interesting to, to see like whether or not you went, like you said, you went to concerts in between too.

And you know, you know, that could have helped. And, you know, again, if you. Try something for the first time. It's going to be uncomfortable because you mentioned like a drink would [00:31:00] take that away, you know, like within 20 minutes. You would, that social anxiety, that stuff would be gone. However, it's, you know, that's an indication that why do I have this?

Why am I feeling anxious? Also, a lot of times we need to give ourself that 20, 30 minutes to get into a situation and then we get comfortable. Anyway, we, we start talking to people and then we realize like, Oh, I didn't need that in the first place, but we try to erase that uncomfortableness immediately.

Yeah. Which I get, I mean. I did it, you know, always and I'm uncomfortable now and still, but whatever. I mean, it's, it's that, uh, you know, it does get easier, but we just have to allow ourselves to try that and then work through that and figure out ways to make it less uncomfortable, which we can do with practice.

Joy: Two, two things that I like, I like the one where you water, it will grow. So, like, talking about being, like, obsessed with sobriety, [00:32:00] or, you know, just really giving it your all. Like, where you water, it will grow. So, if you put all of your efforts into something, you're gonna come out with success. The second one is deal with being uncomfortable until it becomes comfortable.

So like go through a little bit of pain. Oh, being uncomfortable until you become comfortable. It doesn't get easier you just get stronger, is the other saying. So we have all these tools in our toolbox now, and we're just stronger now after, after time.

Kevin: Yeah. I mean, the more you do something, right, the better you get at it.

Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the, that's the simple answer to that. Like, how do you do that? Keep doing it. You keep trying it. You keep working on it. You keep going. Yeah. I mean, I mean, how do you do, how did you learn? In school, how did you, you know, learn how to play a sport? How did you learn to do this, that, the other thing?[00:33:00]

Practice, you know, repetitions. And, and that's it. So. Allow yourself to get those reps in.

Steph: Yeah, exactly. I do like to, I like how you talk about kind of being obsessed with going alcohol free and I even like, like where you water will grow or whatever. It's just, I haven't thought about that in a long time because I did something similar to you, joy, where I was just like a hundred percent focused on learning how to be alcohol free and I just trusted that it wouldn't be like that forever.

I just. Like Kevin said, like I realized I needed to practice that I was so used to relying on alcohol for stress relief and to help me turn my brain off after a stressful day or when I felt overwhelmed or anything like that. And it's like, well, yeah, it's going to take practice to learn these new coping skills to move away from the maladaptive coping skills.

And I mean, even though we use the word obsession or something like that[00:34:00] yeah. I think just realizing that it doesn't have to be like that forever either, right? Like, you have a big, full like fulfilling life that where alcohol isn't front and center. You're not thinking about it anymore. It's just, you don't even really think about it anymore, right?

I mean, you still go to meetings and kind of keep like the tune ups, right? Like tune ups for your car. Like you still do the maintenance or whatever, but it's not like you're obsessing over it still, right? No, I

Joy: can't. I can't imagine. ever drinking. It's just, it's just not something I even would want to do.

There's so many great benefits from quitting drinking. And not all days are easy. Some days can be stressful, but you're going to have stressful days whether you're drinking or not. It's just learning to cope with stressful days, you know, without alcohol. My husband actually works at a fine wine and distribution center.

So talk about, you know, hearing about different customers that come in [00:35:00] and they're, they're, Hey, I'm looking for a wine that goes with my chicken piccata. And he's having to like explain different types of wines and stuff. And I hear his stories, you know, after work and okay. I'm actually the voiceover on their commercial.

And did that while I quit drinking.

Kevin: That's awesome.

Steph: Yeah. It feels like a conflict of interest though. I know,

Joy: but it didn't bother me. I was like, well, I'm not drinking the wine, but it's part of your job.

Steph: It's interesting too, since he's not a huge drinker either. Yeah.

Joy: They do a lot of wine tastings there, but I think he just, he just doesn't contribute to that part.

Kevin: Yeah, I just thinking about that, that person that comes in, I need this for my chicken piccata. And it's like, you know, you just grab anything and be like, Oh, this pairs perfectly with it. And they would be like, Oh, this was the best. And it's like, you know, that whole thing, I don't agree that that's really a, a big, that's really a thing, but, hey, I just think it's good marketing.[00:36:00]

Steph: Uh, so, Joy, oh, that's okay. You talked about at the concerts where you realized that people weren't Actually drinking as much as you thought they were back when you were a drinker. Did you run into that at the weddings, too?

Joy: Uh, no.

Steph: Okay. Yeah. They were taking advantage of open bar at the weddings? Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I was just curious. My last time drinking was at a wedding, and... And like, it was my best friend's wedding, and her husband isn't a big drinker, and he had like one drink the entire night. He was just drinking bottles of water, and I'm like, I was like you on that bachelorette party where I knew I was gonna quit after that, like I knew that was my last time drinking, and I did what Kevin was worried about, which is, I got blackout wasted, because I'm like, woo, it's like.

Final, final hurrah here. But yeah, I mean, I just, everywhere I go now that I don't drink, I notice other [00:37:00] people aren't drinking like I thought they did, like that's one of the biggest lies we tell ourselves is that everyone drinks the way we do.

Joy: Yeah. I do notice that in restaurants too. Like we'll sit down and I look at other people's tables and I'm like, there's more people not drinking than are drinking.

But before I was like, everybody goes out to dinner and has drinks in their dinner. Actually, they don't.

Steph: Yeah.

Kevin: Yeah. Uh, and that's funny that you, about the, about the wedding too, because I was just thinking back to my last time and it was, it was a, I'm going to start again tomorrow and see if I can just do this alcohol free thing again and let's, let's check it out.

And we just got back from vacation and it was like, Oh, we brought all this stuff back. So I have to finish it. Yep. Gotta get rid of it first. Gotta get rid of it. Uh, anything that doesn't get finished is going to go to someone else tomorrow.

Steph: Don't want to waste it.

Kevin: Yeah. And, and, but that time too, it was also me, I woke up the next day and I'm like, I'm not making it to the weekend.

It's not like I was like, I am [00:38:00] done. This is it. It was, that was a whole bunch of back and forth over a couple of months figuring that out. Uh, I, I, I'm just thinking back on the, the, the whole obsessed comment and, I wasn't obsessed with being alcohol free, I think I was obsessed with figuring out how I wanted this to show up in my life, and I tried to keep it in, and then I realized that I didn't really want that, but it was still, you know, a work in process, so, again, just, that's where, keep going, and you don't have to be obsessed with Like anybody listening, right?

I mean, somebody like, Oh, I'm just looking to cut back. Or I think I want to quit. Like, you don't have to be like, totally obsessed with it in that way. If that word is too big for you, right? Just what can you do to work on it and make that a priority? Basically, every day, like do something every day. That's going to help you.

And, and what were some of the routines that [00:39:00] you used and, and still perhaps use, or, you know, was that a big thing for you changing routine or were you good with routine before? And it's, this just kind of played into that a little bit more.

Joy: I think I changed my routine. Like I said, it was a habit for me to come home from work and pour a glass of wine.

That was the first thing I did. Through COVID it definitely got to be a little bit more or I'd start drinking a little bit earlier. I didn't have that drive home from work anymore so it was like right at five o'clock I was waiting to have that glass of wine after work so where I could just relax and chill.

And now I get off of work and I'm, I'm going to chill on the couch for 20 minutes. I'm going to relax and like, you know, I feel all antsy or, you know, they say that they had like this witching hour. Maybe that's my witching hour. Maybe I just need to sit on the couch and relax for like 20 minutes and scroll on my phone or just close my eyes and take a little bit of a nap and try to rejuvenate myself.

So that's, that's probably the biggest change that I made was either doing something [00:40:00] during that witching hour, like maybe pulling weeds or pruning, pruning trees outside. But just not going in the kitchen right away. I'm not going to the cabinet where the wine used to be stored.

Kevin: Changing it up.

Steph: Yeah.

It's like you, like the wine used to be the signal for your transition to, from like work day to evening. And you just needed to find a new thing to create that transition. And I like that you have like a couple of things to pick from, right? Like at first you probably kept your hands busy, like you said, like doing some work outside or something like that, like keeping hands busy is a.

Really, really great idea at first. And now you realize, I actually just need to decompress for 20 minutes. So. You know, early on going alcohol free or cutting back or whatever, it might be too hard to sit there and just relax for 20 minutes on the couch. Like, you'll have that, like, sort of that energy, that fussiness or whatever that you're not quite ready to [00:41:00] sit with.

But then as you evolved throughout, you know, the past 15, 16 months or whatever, you realize that that is actually what your body is asking for. It's just. To come like soothe that central nervous system, just come down after the work day.

Joy: Right.

Steph: So what are some of the things that you've gained from being alcohol free?

Joy: Uh, one of the biggest things that I gained is I've been with my company for 23 years now. And at year 22, when I quit drinking, I.

Got in a job change. I work in sales now or key account manager for the company. And that was a major change for me. I love, I love this change. It's just something different that I can really use my mind and serve customers. And I really enjoy it. I've gained a lot of quality time with my family.

I feel like instead of kind of isolating myself and cleaning the house and staying busy all the time and, you know, doing my own thing that I've, [00:42:00] I've really enjoyed time with the kids and time with my husband, that's really quality time with a clear mind. It's just genuine, genuine, pure happiness. Uh, our relationships are better.

My house seems very calm and peaceful. And there's, not that we were like crazy before, like throwing dishes and breaking glass, you know, or screaming on top of, you know, our lungs, but it's very peaceful and very calm. And I feel like we can have like good communication. Like, hey, you have a problem? Let's talk about it.

You know, it's just seems so much easier. I think that I've definitely gained a lot of confidence. And kindness and compassion for others. So listening on Reframe to other people's stories and situations, it's just made me feel more empathetic towards other people. I became an RRCA run certified coach.

I finished, uh, school and actually have gone back to school to get another degree. So I just feel like there's nothing that you can't, like, overcome. You can [00:43:00] really conquer a lot of, like, obstacles and challenges. And honestly, I just didn't... Believe it before when I was drinking like it wasn't worth my time But now it's like you really think about it You can put your mind to anything and really accomplish a lot more than you think you're

Steph: capable of Yeah, you really don't realize how much space alcohol takes up in your life until you remove it.

And all of a sudden it's like, you're getting this promotion, you're finishing school, you become this certified coach for running. And then you also listed off some of my favorite things, which are like the more subtle things, like the calm, the peace, like being able to respond and communication rather than just being reactive.

And then the confidence is such a huge piece that like, I don't even know if you can explain it to people who are still drinking that, like the confidence that comes with going alcohol free or achieving your goals with cutting back. You really [00:44:00] highlighted some of my absolute favorite things.

It's just an amazing, like, I don't know, testament to your, your commitment to, to be alcohol free. Something that I meant to bring up before was when you said how you used to isolate yourself with the wine, like you would just get into your like cooking mode or cleaning mode or whatever. And it was you and your wine and.

Probably your headphones and you're just like, kind of running around the house in a little bit of a manic way is what I'm picturing. You didn't say that, but it's because I used to do that too. I would get on these like, cleaning binges where I would just down wine and like, scrub, you know? Yeah. You know, we think that alcohol is a way that we connect with others, but at a certain point we start, it starts to be like our only friend, not just our only coping mechanism, but really our only, I don't know, it's our buddy, you know what I mean?

Not anymore.

Kevin: Not [00:45:00] anymore. It's just that, I mean, yeah, it's that consistent thing. It's like we keep talking about, like it's everywhere. It's weddings and all that, but it's always there. So it's like the mainstay and everybody just equates it to fun or whatever. But then, like we've also talked about, you look around, it's like, not everybody is necessarily doing that though.

We just, if we're, if we are drinking, it's like we're focused on it and that's what we see. It's like, you know, you buy a new car and then you see that car everywhere. Right. You're looking to buy it and you see it everywhere. You know, you see what you're looking for, like, if you're looking to see, like, Oh, I'm not the only one drinking, right?

You see everybody who is drinking. And then the flip side can be true though, too. And we can see that. Okay. Well, no, not everybody is doing this. Now, again, in our little microcosms of friend groups and things like that, maybe everybody is, [00:46:00] uh, and that's where it's tough and that's where it is harder to make the change.

And, but again, that's where you keep, keep working on this. If, if this is something that you've come to the point where you're like, you know, I need to change this and. Realize that, you know, listen to, to joy, listen to staff, listen to all these stories and hear like, you know, that, that's a, that is a constant, like you gain more confidence when you go and you start achieving some of these goals you set out for yourself and that's awesome.

Joy: So now if I could just work on my, uh, nightly. ice cream eating. I'll be like, top notch. Day two. Day two again. Just keep trying. Just keep

Steph: trying. Keep coming back. Uh, well, I think the theme of the show was, is, uh, where you water it will grow because everything you listed out to was definitely showing where you were putting your efforts into because it's not just about removing the [00:47:00] alcohol, right?

You were you know, nurturing these other areas of your life, like the relationships with your family, your husband, your kids you know, getting like that certification as a running coaches, even if you never use it, right. It's just another thing to help you build that confidence. I mean, you're, I know you as a runner, so.

It's just like, Hey, I have this hobby and now I have this education around it and I can go back to school like I can like water all of these like various aspects of my life. It's not just about, you know, removing the water from the drinking part of me, right? It's like I'm nurturing all of these other areas of my life.

And then you know, making alcohol very, very small, you know, non existent. So

Kevin: redirecting the water from you. Watering that part of your life, right? To putting that energy to those other places. Yeah,

Steph: there we go. There we go, Kevin. Thanks for bringing me home with that

Kevin: metaphor. I [00:48:00] love the life garden metaphor, right?

We have so much energy. That's our water. But yeah, I was watering, I don't know. What do you want to call it? My. I should come up with a certain plant for my alcohol, uh, use before. But I was watering the shit out of that one. So yeah. Some kind of prickly weed. Yeah. Yeah. Poison ivy. I got poison ivy bad as a, as a kid.

And yeah, well, and all that. And uh, yeah, there we go. I'll save that for, I gotta write that down somewhere.

Steph: You gotta write down poison ivy. Yeah,

Kevin: that's my nemesis.

Steph: Maybe that's your next tattoo.

Joy: Did you really

Kevin: get a watch? Uh, no, I got the, uh, it just says now. Like in the digital clock font, with the little two dots in between the N and the O.

That's so cool.

Joy: I didn't know if it was for real, because, you know, you're like this big on the screen in the meetings, and you're like, when is it now? I'm like, dang, that's awesome. [00:49:00]

Steph: Wait, what, I don't, yeah, tell me more about that. That's so cool. Oh yeah,

Kevin: I just extended my sleeve a little bit and I added... Uh, now in, in like digital clock.

Like if you look at the clock with the red numbers, the two dot, I

Steph: see that. Wait, time is just,

Kevin: yeah, it's, it's my reminder, right? And it's power of now. Okay. I need reminders. I have stuff reminders and things tattooed on me just because it. I need repetition and it helps hammer at home, but, uh, yeah, and that's why I said in the meeting yesterday too, I'm like, and, and I will forever annoy my wife anytime she asked me, what time is it?

I'm like, well, let me tell you it's right now.

Steph: I bet that doesn't get old at all.

Kevin: I told her, I'm like, decades, don't ask me, don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer, because I can't help myself, you know, I won't be able to help myself. I know that.

Steph: Yeah. [00:50:00] I love that though. That is clever.

I really like that.

Kevin: I had an idea for it. And then I, I got, I saw, I think it was Max Crosby Raiders, uh, plays for the Raiders. He has a similar one, uh, on his other arm that I was like, Oh, taking that. That's cool. I'm borrowing it. So

Joy: I have one, it says running, do not grow weary. And it's not just about running.

It's like, keep going. Don't get tired. Don't stop.

Kevin: I like that. Yeah. Now you need like a watering can over that too. Yes. Water it. Yeah.

Joy: A big flower is next thing

Kevin: I'll be cutting up.

Steph: I'm working on designing like a house plant sleeve for myself, but I also like the the watering can idea. I think that's, I like that.

I'm

Kevin: inspired. I like to incorporate that into that sleeve. Yeah. Yeah.

Steph: Yeah. It's just a little more clever than a butterfly, I think, you know, butterfly is tired. [00:51:00]

Joy: Fluffin

Kevin: his wings too long. Yeah. Do you have a butterfly tattoo? Is that the...

Steph: I don't. No. It's just like the whole metamorphosis thing. It's like... I gotcha.

Yeah. It's been played before. So... Yeah. I think the watering can's a little more, a little more clever. So I like a whole

Kevin: Field of Dreams theme. If you water it, it will grow. Yeah.

Steph: Exactly. Okay. All right. Shall we

Kevin: wrap up? Yeah. On that note.

Steph: On that note. All right, Joy. Is there anything else you want to share with us before we sign off?

Joy: Uh, I just want to say thank you guys again for having me and a special appreciation to my Instagram friends, my Ladybug friends. You guys are a big part of my journey. The coaches on Reframe are amazing and I'm just so grateful to have you guys in my life.

Steph: We are grateful for you, Joy. Thank

Kevin: you.

Definitely. Thank you. And thank you all for listening [00:52:00] to this week's episode of the Reframeable podcast brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol.

It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you are enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it. And if you have a topic you'd like to like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app.

com. Or if you're on the reframe app, give it a shake when you're in the app and ask a question and let us know. I want to thank you again for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode. All right. Have a great day, everyone.