S2E5 - Kat Porco - One Legged Magpie

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Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast, the podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more.

Because changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass. This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you.

My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the reframe app.

In today's episode, we will talk with Kat Porco. Kat and her husband, Mike are pushing the boundaries of nightlife in the small mountain town of Red Lodge, Montana. They own One Legged Magpie, a craft cocktail bar with one of the most robust zero proof menus in the nation.

Kat is [00:01:00] sober and she knows that much of the allure of drinking is the ritual, the pause in life when you raise a glass, the sense of community, the conversations that evolve. We seek out people, we seek out celebrations, we seek out energy. All of that is available at Magpie sans alcohol. Our staff is predominantly sober, offering a unique perspective in our world that is flooded with booze sober for a night or a life. All are welcome. And with that. Welcome Kat.

Kat: Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.

Kevin: Yeah. How's your day, week, month going?

Kat: It's all just going, right? Um, no, it's good.

We're, um, slowing down in the tourism season here in the mountain town. And so it's starting to tailor back a little bit, but, um, but yeah, and just kind of jumping in to, to fall and all that means for a restaurant bar.

Kevin: When's tourist season typically run for you

Kat: there? So we have, [00:02:00] we're at the base of the Beartooth mountains.

So the pass that goes over from Red Lodge into Yellowstone, and that is open from Memorial day until a little after labor day. So that is our season. Um, and then we do have a ski hill here as well. And so we have, uh, a little bit of a winter season, but mostly summer.

Kevin: That's awesome. So, uh, yeah. Why don't you, why don't we just jump right in and why don't you tell us a little bit about your story, how we got, yeah, how we got here. Yeah,

Kat: absolutely. So we, prior to owning a craft cocktail bar, We actually were in cystic fibrosis. So, our oldest has cystic fibrosis and diabetes.

So I, my undergrad is in social work and then, um, my master's is in health communications. And then I went back and became a board certified health and wellness coach. And then I went back again and became a diabetes educator. So we had a nonprofit. For [00:03:00] cystic fibrosis, um, I did diabetes education and health coaching for chronic disease management.

And my husband did pulmonary rehab. And then there's been like amazing new breakthroughs in cystic fibrosis. And, um, really we kind of worked ourselves out of a job, which is the best thing ever. Um, but that kind of landed us in a place of like, wow, all we know how to do is work in cystic fibrosis, which is super nuanced.

So, Throughout the 10 years that we were living in Red Lodge before one legged magpie, our kiddo was in the hospital for 50 weeks in Billings, which is an hour from here, and so, um, usually they were two to three week stints at a time, and we were, um, very worried. Much there.

Like I lived in the hospital room. So places nearby the hospital became my home and there was a coffee shop patisserie that was like a block from the hospital called Harper [00:04:00] and Madison. And it was everything that I needed in all of those challenging times. Like the moment that you walk through the door, the owner Joni made you feel like yeah.

You know, she had been waiting for you all day. Like it didn't matter who it was. Like you saw it with each person that walked through the door. And, um, there was something about that pivotal time in my life when I was. Dealing with so many health concerns with my child and simultaneously having like the most unbelievable experience of being loved and being cared for by someone that really didn't know me other than just being a regular.

And I wanted to give that to people. I wanted to create that space. Our town is a tourist town, so it's saturated with different coffee shops and bakeries. And so we really were trying to figure out how we would ever offer that when a bar became available and it wasn't like our first [00:05:00] choice.

Like, we'd never been like, oh, we need a bar in our life. Um, but it was something that we could use as a platform to create space. And so we started this bar and in full transparency have probably been like a quote unquote gray area drinker for about 20 years. And I had this moment when we signed the loan papers that I was like, this is like a sink or swim moment for me, I am either going to become a raging alcoholic or I'm probably going to become sober.

Those are going to be my two choices as I kind of looked around at the environment. So I spent the first year and a half testing out kind of the boundaries of, um, of what's safe for alcohol consumption. I was never the person that was like taking shots behind the bar, but I definitely, had more than I should have been drinking.

Yeah, so at the time. We [00:06:00] only had one other front of house staff that was not so sober other than myself. And, um, at this point, I was definitely very curious about what life could look like without alcohol for myself, as someone that grew up with a very Like, my parents drink, but very balanced, um, my sister drinks, but it feels balanced, but like everything, nothing seems out of place for them as it did for me, like, I just felt like I didn't have control. And so I was talking with one of my bartenders and his name was JD and he, he's just this great character, but, um, he said, I knew it was time to quit when the thing that I loved most, which was yoga, I couldn't do it at night when I got home from the bar because I was drunk and I couldn't do it in the morning because I was hungover.

And it was just like this crazy epiphany. Like it wasn't anything like [00:07:00] unbelievable that I hadn't heard before, but it was just like, Oh my gosh, that's totally me. Like I'm things I'm losing things that are important to me because I'm making time for drinking instead of that. Now I am a sober bar owner and working on creating a super awesome environment without alcohol.

Kevin: Yeah, and definitely want to, we're definitely going to get into that too with like, you know, owning, owning a, uh, not a sober bar. You're a sober, bar owner. Yes. Yes. Good clarification. But as we said in the intro too, one with a robust and from what I've heard, yeah, you tell me, uh, an excellent zero proof selection, which is awesome, which I hope, all bars, go to, um, but yeah, it's so funny how like that, like you said, that just click, right. That thing that just hit you. Um, and [00:08:00] yeah, I mean, when you love, I love yoga, but I'm a yoga instructor, but I can't do it or, you know, anything like whether it's family, whether it's your hobbies, whether it's just, work, it holds you back. If you're feeling that, I feel like it's okay to question, right.

It's okay to Uh, take a look at that. Even, even if, like you said, like you talked about, I believe your parents and maybe your sister, you said, like, nothing seems out of place for them. It's fine for them. Right? Yeah, I think we get into the, the rut of thinking that they can handle it. And I can't, it's just me.

Right. We never know what, what they're thinking. Right. And we, yeah. So, I think, taking that off of the table and just being like, how's it impacting me? Um, right. So what did you do? Did you do anything that in particular,, was it just a light switch and you were like, I'm done?

Kat: Yeah, it was, it was so crazy. Um, [00:09:00] and I say that with a lot of caution because I feel like people then don't take the seriousness of what I went through for the last two decades. And that being said, like that, I. I mean, I almost lost my child 15 times. They were air flighted for peritoneal sepsis. Like their father killed himself.

Like there were so many reasons that I was given an excuse to drink out of accordance of what's healthy. Right. I put that in air quotes in case someone is just listening to this, but, um, yeah, everybody gave me excuses because my life was harder than, than a lot of people. And that being said, I wasn't proud of where I was and I was sad that my memories, most of my game times with my kids involve a beer or a glass of wine.

Um, I wish that were different, but I'm so glad that I still have that time and I can recreate that experience and [00:10:00]that they can see, um, me making that choice.

Kevin: Yeah, definitely is a, is great just to recognize. Yeah, well, now it is different, right? Yeah, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish. What if? Right, right. That's, that's so tough when you go down that, when you go down the road.

Kat: It totally is. Yes. But I'm so sorry I got like off track, but yes, so it was that day I talked to him.

Um, he said that thing that he said, and then we had another server there and her name's Chandra and she's like such a badass, but she, I was like, and what's your story? And she's like, it just took me. You know, it took me a while to figure out that like, this is the best life. Like I was trying so hard to avoid this and this is amazing and I would never go back.

And I was just like, huh? Like it was so hard for me to understand how people coped. Really? [00:11:00] Cause that my only, my only coping tool at that time was a couple of beers at night.

Kevin: Yeah. I hear that. How did you change that? What are your coping tools now? And like, how did you, what was that process like?

Kat: Yeah, so it's interesting because I was like reflecting on this the other day, um, as to why it, it was that I could just completely stop because I tried everything before that conversation. I Did hypnosis. I did like, I sought counselor, like I really did work at stopping. Um, and then I had that moment and, um, but owning a bar is probably, or working in hospitality.

I should just say that, like I'm noticing now, um, two years in is one of the hardest things I have ever done. It is so ungratifying. Is that a word? I feel like that's [00:12:00] probably a word or. Something like that. We all know what I'm trying

Kevin: to say. It's not gratifying. Yeah. It's not gratifying. I know what you mean.

Yeah. Yeah. Ungratifying. I don't know. Yeah. We'll go with it. It is. We're

Kat: going to make that up. Um. And like everything you do is under the microscope, especially in a town of 2, 500. So coming in and taking a dive bar and turning it into a craft cocktail bar with velvet chairs. And, you know, I mean, that was a big deal in our little town and, um, yeah.

Yeah. And, that whole side of things. I've never been under the fire like that from people. I created a nonprofit. I gave of my life for 15 years to people who needed it. And no one says anything bad about that person. But lots of people have things to say about hospitality and, um, no matter how hard I try, my skin doesn't get any thicker and time will probably not change [00:13:00] that.

That may just be who I am. And so, um, so I started a process. I like, I get up every morning. I go for a walk. I sit by a creek. I meditate. I do tapping and then I go back and I do yoga at my house. Like I have an hour and a half to two hour routine that I do every morning to be able to get me to walk through the door of the bar and just like sink into this challenging role. And I see this and all of our staff as well. Like, it is not easy to be in hospitality. Um, and so I had incredible tools in place the day I decided to quit drinking. I will say I listened to the Alan Carr easy way and that was like, I don't know what it was about it, but it spoke to me like so clearly.

And I was like, yeah, what the heck have I been doing to myself? This is insane. And then coupled with these amazing people that I worked [00:14:00] with that I totally respected and their perspective and then just having tools in place. And so that's something that I've always, that we did in CF as well. It's like you don't add one more, you know, big component to daily care before you have a tool that's going to alleviate something else or make this feel manageable.

And it's the same thing with alcohol. It's like, kind of get those tools in place, get the, um, support systems in place so that it isn't this unbelievable stripping of all that you know.

Kevin: Yeah. Because, because it is right. I mean, depending on what your goal is, you know, cause you could be, whether you're cutting back, whether you're quitting, you know, you're going to face similar yet different challenges.

Right. I mean, if you're, if you're. Cutting back, you know, it's, you're at least if you're going out with, with friends and that you can at least like have some, whatever your target is, right. Whatever your number [00:15:00] is. Um, but then you're challenged with stopping once you've had some, and then, with cutting out, then you have, okay, well, no, I'm not drinking.

And, and maybe that scrutiny or your desire for a drink. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely going to be different paths, but similar tools and similar things that you need to do, uh, absolutely to get through it. I think,

Kat: you know, that's where all of this, um, all of these.

Not that, I don't know, I'm, I'm always very cautious about, like, I don't do anything else. Like, I quit alcohol. I am sober. Like, I am as sober as the day sometimes feels long. And, and yet, you know, it's the ritual I miss. It's the, it's that experience of like sitting down with people and like letting go.

It's, it's all of that, that, that is what I was so connected to. Like, don't get me wrong. I love a good [00:16:00] buzz, but it was, as I stepped away from it and I recognize the feeling of loss that I had around alcohol, it was the ritual, it was the celebration. And so I guess that's where this all came in. To place at magpie and not that before I was sober, we still had the entire athletic lineup.

We still had, um, you know, a couple of zero proof cocktails. We had a few things now we have. A lot of things. Um, and so it's always been a space, but for me, it was more like thinking of the people that may want to space out a beer with an athletic beer, or maybe they are running a marathon tomorrow, or like, I didn't just like everything else in the world until it's your perspective.

It's really hard to grasp. And so as soon as it was my perspective, I was like, Yeah. Oh my gosh. I want everyone to feel welcome here. Like I don't want people to feel like they have to order a club soda. Like that's like childish. Like we [00:17:00] can do better than that. And um, I just noticed like my feeling, like I, you know, it was every Billings trip was a stop at my favorite brewery.

And now I don't know what to do with that. Like I, I miss those people. I miss the food that I got there. I miss all those things, but I don't. Feel welcome there. Not that it's not, but that was my space for that type of experience. Yeah. And I don't want that anymore.

Kevin: Yeah. I get that. And, and having those, those places that we love.

Right, right, right. The, you know, because I just went to one of my old favorite, um, breweries, uh, here around Cleveland and I used to go there all the time with a Growler and . Right. With two and Right. And I went and I picked up the beer menu and. I, you know, for an old time's sake, cause their food's really good.

So I'm like, okay, let's go eat. Uh, and I'm, but I'm looking at that and then I flip it over on the back and I'm like, oh, I'll [00:18:00] have this athletic IPA, uh, cause they did have two of them. So I was like, awesome. So, yeah, I mean,

Kat: I'm like, you don't have to make it. Right. Exactly. But to just have it be an option for people so that they don't.

You know, feel out of place. And I think that is happening a lot in Montana, too. There's a lot of great breweries that are Starting to have athletic around and other NA beers, but that's definitely the most prevalent in Montana for a good reason they're just awesome, but But yeah, so I think, um, I think finding ways to make, I don't know, just to recreate the idea of, of culture in the evening is like my, my mission now, which I don't, which I feel like there are so many people on, so it's not gonna be hard.

Kevin: Yeah, I mean, and to have both options there for people. Yeah. It's just when you see that, when you see like one thing over [00:19:00] here or a Heineken zero or no dues, right. And one option, like off to the side, like mm-hmm. , you know, it, it's not as welcoming as like, oh, I can order any of this stuff, you know?

Right. And it, it's almost expected that you don't have to drink. Yeah. Like it's not even a right thing. It, yeah. So, um, Yeah, that that's that's great to hear. And like we said, like, I think all places are going to eventually get there. Not all places. Yes. Most places are going to eventually get there. It will take time.

Um, you're way ahead of the curve, which is awesome. So

Kat: that's fun. It's nice to, um, we actually, there was a huge summer fest in town and we had four, we don't have a huge, I mean, we have a very large bar, but we don't have a huge seating space. And, um, there were four tables and they all said that they'd come because they heard we had great zero proof options.

And I was like, [00:20:00] Oh, yay. Like that's the win right there for me. So.

Kevin: Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah. That is cool. And I respect the two paths that you said early on too, about like, I'm either going to become just go off the deep end and drink, or I'm going to go sober. There's no between.

Kat: And even with the almost sober staff, it's hard, like the culture is just acceptable. Like everybody says, Oh, grab a beer and come sit when you're done making drinks. And you're like, Oh, okay.

Kevin: Yeah. The, so you said you were like when you started, right, though, you were still kind of in that gray area.

What were some of the struggles you might've had and what did you do after a stressful night whenever a high, you know, customers were, were not nice or not happy or, or whatever. And it was late, if it was all, all those like triggers happening.

Yeah. So I had the,

Kat: um, had the gift and the curse that my husband is [00:21:00] extremely moderate in his drinking. So, you know, we'd get to the end of the night and he'd just be like, I want to go home. Whereas I would be like, let's stay and have a couple like, yeah, everybody's gone. Isn't this great? We should like, hang out in our own bar.

And he'd be like, okay, I'll have a half. And so in that way, we didn't often stay late drinking together. Um, but that also it was kind of how I ended up with my problem being what it was that, you know, all of our lovely, beautiful glassware from this company called Nude is like the sexiest stuff on the face of the earth, but it's, some of it is a little small for our drinks.

And so then I would pour the leftover things out of the shaker into my own glass and just drink those throughout the night. Um, so I have no idea how much I drank really. Um, I just know that it was more than I should have.

[00:22:00] So yeah, it was, it was very nice and, and cloudy. So, it was like, there was no, Oh my gosh, I had four tonight. Like, or I had whatever number it was just like, I sipped off of a lot of extras and. That was probably more extras than I meant to.

Kevin: Yeah. And that's tough, right? That's one of the first things, um, to take a look at is to get an accurate number, you know, when you, how much you're drinking, because I know had heavy pours. I had boxes of wine downstairs where I kind of, so I didn't have to count and yeah, um, quick, just

Kat: a one quick little pull of that. Just to top off, just top off that wine for two seconds.

Kevin: Yeah. And yeah, and I was never counting. I was never, or maybe I would track in the beginning and then by the end of the night, I was, yeah, who knows, um, so yeah, [00:23:00] getting that, I can getting that, getting a handle on that, on that count to start with, I think, uh, is definitely helpful there.

Kat: But I, yeah, I mean, it wasn't, I, I definitely don't mean to make it sound like I was I was beautifully in control before that, because I wasn't, I was definitely the person that was, would have a drink before I went to the gathering or, you know, like, I always felt like I needed more than anyone else or I always counted everyone's drinks.

Everybody thought that was so funny. In reality, I think it was because I knew at the end of the night if it came down to it, if I had had the least, I was gonna make sure I got the last one. You know, like looking back and thinking about it like that made sense to me. So I never was in, I never had a good relationship with alcohol after like, probably the kid, like maybe since I was 30.

So I had 14 solid years of dysfunction. Um, [00:24:00] Yeah. So, yeah.

Kevin: So with, you know, with one legged magpie. So it didn't start out. No, you said it did, did have a great selection before it just got better once you, uh, once you became sober, right? Yeah. Right.

Kat: Yeah. Um, I mean, yeah. Yeah. I would say we had a couple like craft, like we had two zero proof cocktails on and then we had, um, yeah, we always had the whole line of athletic and CBD waters or something like that.

Some random. Okay.

Kevin: But creating that space, creating that thing where, like you said, uh, like we, like I read in, in the intro, like that ritual community conversations, you know, how do you see that? Has that changed for you? Or, you know, cause it can be different depends on, I guess, who you surround yourself with or who you did surround yourself with.

And if that needs to change, but, um, how [00:25:00] did that feel for you and how do you try and like, Help that at the at the bar.

Kat: Yeah. Yeah. I think so when I, when we were looking to move to Red Lodge, I was trying to figure out like how the school systems were and like, are, are there a lot of kids in town? And I kept reaching out to people on Facebook.

Granted, this was like 14 years ago and no one was responding. And finally, I got like the hockey team, like the Red Lodge hockey team to like, accept me into their group. And then I was able to ask them and, yeah, yeah. The guy that responded said, Red Lodge is like a college town, except there's no college and the average age is like in the mid forties.

But if you think of the drinking culture, it's very much like a college town. And I was like, huh, okay. That's sounds like fun. Um, at the time. So just perspective wise, like [00:26:00] that is Red Lodge is known for being a small town with a big drinking problem. And we have bumper stickers and we say it. Um, so. There has definitely been like, I did a whole dry January thing at the bar.

Not, I didn't do dry January. I did not do dry January. Um, yeah, I promoted it. And immediately the buzz in town was that we stopped serving alcohol, that we're now sober bar. And so that's like, that is Red Lodge in a nutshell, but anyway, so just trying to Make any shift to support a healthier lifestyle, you know, has some resistance.

And, we're now learning that there are so many people in town that are grateful to be able to come, whether it's because of health, whether it's because of, you know, whatever, whatever their reason is that they don't like their relationship with alcohol, whatever it is, that there are so many [00:27:00] people that didn't feel welcome out in the night community.

That now do, and I think that whether that was no matter what the reason as a social worker, whether it's the LGBTQ community, whether it's the, I don't care, like, I just want everyone to feel welcome no matter what. And I didn't realize that being sober walking into a drinking establishment felt alienating.

I didn't know. I had no experience with that. So, um, so I think that that is the perspective now that I hold all the time is how do I feel if I were to walk up to a brewery? Um, and have to ask, do you have NA beers as well? And so I just try to make it as welcoming as possible. Um, so we have all of our NA stuff in a case right behind, like right when you walk in the door, you can see a lot of NA drinks right away.

Um, [00:28:00] and I think that that helps people to kind of see, um, yeah, I dunno.

Kevin: Yeah, I, I 100 percent agree because that was one of the, the toughest things for me was, and I found ways around it or I found things I liked, but I had to learn it along the way. So in the beginning I was like walking in and I didn't know to plan ahead.

I didn't know to go on their website and see what they have or call it or anything like

Kat: They usually don't have anything. Like it doesn't look like, I mean, they don't have anything on their website letting you know. But like,

Kevin: And I, and I would ask, I'd be like, Oh, what kind of mocktails do you have? Or what kind of alcohol free drinks do you have?

And they looked at me like deer in headlights and they're like, well, we have the stuff on the gun, right? Like, okay. I'm like, I'll take a diet Coke. Yeah. Right. I'm like, I'll take a diet Coke. Uh, yeah. And, and now, with the explosion of the N. A., what are we going to call it? [00:29:00] The N. A. movement.

Evolution, yeah, totally. The alcohol free, yeah, like, now I know for a fact I can walk into 99 percent of places and get some kind of Heineken Zero, athletic, you know, some kind of Zero beer. And that's like the bar, right? That's the low bar. Um, you know, so I, I had to find other things that I had to have ready, like ginger beer.

I was like, most people have ginger beer, um, just because they mix it with alcohol. So I'm like, totally beer and lime. I would say, yeah, I would be like, no alcohol, like no alcohol, not a Moscow Mule, nothing like right. Just ginger beer, just lime. And I had to ask a lot of times too. I'm like your ginger beer it doesn't have alcohol in it. Right. Because some do, it became a little tricky. Uh,

Kat: and it's just one more step between it feeling comfortable and not comfortable.

Kevin: Yeah. I was the guy ordering changing all the, all this other items and I'm going to order this, but I'm going [00:30:00] to add in all the things.

Kat: You're suddenly the guy ordering the pizza that doesn't want cheese.

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, and, and that, that can be uncomfortable. How do you like, uh, you know, now you're also, coaching on the Reframe app too. Like, how do you help people, with the experience that you have? Knowing all this, like, how do you help people get comfortable with that?

What would you, what do you, whether it's a bar, a restaurant, a friend's house, a club, uh, you know, there's so many different things that you can do. And, uh, it's not going to feel comfortable at first, but how can we work on it? What are some good ways to do that?

Kat: I know. I mean, I know we talk with our staff about saying, on the front side is the food on the backside of our cocktails as well as our zero proof cocktails and then beer and wine list and all of our zero proof offerings are mixed in and just like making sure that people hear right away that they're welcome to be here when they don't order alcohol.[00:31:00]

And I think for me, what I've learned is that. I mean, when I go visit my family, I take a cooler of stuff from the magpie. Like I take all my curious elixirs. I take my athletic, I take, oh my gosh, the little saints. I take, like, I have this whole, like, I bring a whole fridge to my parents house. And then. And then I don't have, like, happy hour isn't an issue for me, probably because I'm around it all the time and I've come to a space where I am so grateful that I don't have to drink anymore.

Like, I'm just so immensely grateful that my life is not full of what I, um, was always trying to run from, with alcohol. And so I think for me, it's all about being prepared. I hate walking in somewhere and feeling like there's nothing for me, or that I'm making someone uncomfortable, like you said, or making myself uncomfortable.

And so, I always have something in my bag. [00:32:00] And I always ask, um, I mean, I, do you have anything? And if they're like, uh, we have a, you know, whatever. I'm like, do you mind if I open an athletic here? And they're usually like, oh, of course not, go for it. And so that works. Or, like, I have some tinctures that I'll bring and I have in my purse and if like, there's nothing good, I'll just get a soda water and throw, um, some relaxing herbs in and like, I don't know, but yeah, for me, it's all about planning and, obviously it's not the responsibility of the bar to, to be ready for us. Um, it's nice when they do, but, um, and it's welcoming and they will have more repeat people.

If they get on board with this, but, um, but it's also just kind of us figuring out how to be comfortable in this space to at least for me.

Kevin: Yeah, [00:33:00] and that takes time. I think, right? Yeah, for sure.

Kat: And I'm, I'm starting out with a lot of like tools from, knowing what's available. And I mean, obviously, like, we have a huge list of things that, that I know that I can grab really quick and run with.

Whereas like, if I wanted to go find something, and they in this town, Without the magpie, I would go to i g a and get an athletic or a bush na like that. Those are my options. And so I am very privileged. I will say that.

Kevin: or Yeah. Or you spend more, even more money for shipping and Right, exactly. Or, or order online.

Yeah. I know that's, that's been a lot of the mine over the years. Uh, yeah. It's getting better. I know. Whenever places popping up here.

Kat: Yeah. When the apps, ask you like how much you spend on beer. I'm like, you know, to tell you your savings. And I'm like, well, let's not go there.

Like, I guess I definitely spend a fair amount on NA [00:34:00] stuff as well.

Kevin: Yeah. Uh, I was just talking about that with, uh, Steph on one of the episodes about how, um, uh, Yeah, looking for, looking at the monetary, uh, savings, you know, and, and rewarding yourself along the way.

And I said that, you know, I've, I always justified a lot of purchases on the amount of money I was saving because I wasn't drinking and, uh, I never deducted that from the totals. My total is still going up and I'm probably break even at this point. I know,

Kat: I know, but there's so many other rewards. Just maybe not that one.

Um, exactly. But yeah, I think that we, um, just as a culture have to be like everything else that's going on in the world, like just figure out how to be more welcoming, that's all.

Kevin: Yeah. And you said basis of it? Yeah. And you had mentioned something that was like, you said that it's not the restaurant or bar's [00:35:00] responsibility to

cater to the non alcoholic crowd, you know, the people who are, who are looking to cut back or quit or the people who are looking to drink less or not at all, um, alcohol that is. And no, but I think it is, it's where things are going and I think it's going to get there. So why wouldn't you want to be ahead of the curve?

Kat: I mean, I would say like, if honestly, as a bar owner or a restaurant owner, I don't know. We always, we don't really know what we are. We're something in there. Our alcohol sales are, and NA sales are bigger than our food sales. So we think of ourselves as a bar, but we look like a restaurant. So we don't know we're something.

Um, but I would say like the biggest piece of advice to them is to embrace this. Because a, it just like, I mean, there are some nights where we sell more zero proof than we do regular, we have, we go through [00:36:00] a keg of athletic every week, sometimes two and yay for that. Cause that's amazing. Um, and it's not just the bartenders and I drinking that, I swear.

Um, but, um, but no, it's, you know, that is consistently. And so I think that there's no reason to push back on it because it also allows people to be moderate, to choose something different, like a person that maybe knows they shouldn't have that last one, but there are no options that are alluring, then they're going to have that last one and potentially there's going to be a A bad situation that comes out of that for the bar.

And so I think like having that option to be like, Hey, like it seems like you've had a lot and I would love to get you something else, but like, why don't you choose one of our athletics? Like they're, they're awesome. And then you're done and it's okay. Um, but when there's no [00:37:00] other option, people are going to continue drinking.

Kevin: And to have it like, you know, it's, we're reluctant to change and we're, we're so reluctant to change especially when you're a small town with a big drinking problem. If I don't know if I said that right. Um, but whenever you're, it's so like ingrained in the area or just in the mindset, it's hard, but you know, there's a lot of restaurants that have, that you wouldn't suspect would have vegan and vegetarian options or have GF free market or menu and things like that.

Right. I mean, I don't know if that's, I don't know if there's rules surrounding that now. Um, No, and that's, you know, like people, right.

Kat: And I think that's, that's where I meant to go in the whole conversation of like, it's not the bar's responsibility, just like, it's not, you know, when you go to an Italian restaurant, that's like full on Italian and there's one salad and everything else is pasta or pizza.

Like you pick the restaurant, [00:38:00] like probably that, you know, isn't going to be available to you if you're gluten free and it's not their job to do that. And it's really nice when they have something available for you so that a whole group of people that have people that, need that don't feel alienated or don't feel awkward, when they sit down.

So

Kevin: that's yeah.

Um, but that Italian restaurant is going to have plenty of people that come in who have issues with gluten. Right. So to have an option it is just, yeah, it's smart to help you, uh, because some people might look at the menu and be like, Oh, we can't go there because Kevin, there's nothing there to eat for Kevin.

Kat: And, you know, we have a huge population of people that ride through on motorcycles like us, you know, we're right before Sturgis and obviously riding on a motorcycle with alcohol is not a great idea. And so it's worked out really well that a lot of this. People coming through on bikes [00:39:00] also come because they can have a beer on tap that tastes amazing that they can then continue their ride up the pass

Kevin: Yeah, that is, that is great. Curious, if you have any thoughts or advice for people who are in the hospitality industry, uh, and may not work for one legged magpie, cause let's just say we're at a bar restaurant without the options, without the, uh, the other people who might not be drinking or might be cutting back is there anything that could be helpful for someone in that, in that, uh, I

Kat: mean, I think, as someone working in the service industry, if I overhear when I met a different restaurant and I hear someone order something and then they specify again, Oh, you don't [00:40:00] want alcohol or something like that to that effect, like that is so Like it, you know, you don't know how hard that was for that person to say that potentially, and you just like, you breeze over it just like anything else.

Okay. You're going to have a dirty martini. You're going to have a, this, and you're going to have a athletic beer. Fantastic. Or you're going to have a curious elixir. Number two. Great. Like, but the whole, like that energy that goes into confirming or are you sure you don't, you, you want it as a zero proof. You don't want to add tequila or something to it.

Like that's another one when, you know, where you're just like, there's no need for that. So confirming back the order so that the person doesn't need to like say, yes, I am sober. Like there's no need for that. Um, so I guess for me, that is something that I now hear a lot when I go out, um, or at night when somebody orders an iced tea and the, you know, beer, [00:41:00] um, you know, the person at the brewery is like, Do you don't want a beer?

Like, don't question why someone, don't like question the person's order. They know what they want, like just let them ride. Um, so I guess that's something that I really notice now, um, that happens a lot, like a lot, a lot.

Kevin: Yeah. I've gotten it. a, uh, liquor store and you're having a a six pack of NA beer and put it on the counter, and he's like, looks at it and you know, there's no alcohol on that. Right. I'm like, that's why I'm buying it.

Kat: Just like fascinating.

Kevin: Yeah. Right. Do you like, I mean, is that okay?

Kat: I will say that I have, there was one, was one group like this. group of guys and they were all sitting down and they they were in town for a bachelor party and this was like a huge conflict of everything I'm saying right now, but it was just kind of funny.

But he sits down and he's like, he just [00:42:00] looks at the menu super quick and he's like, I'll take a run wild. And I was like, Oh, cool. Non alcoholic beer on tap is pretty killer, right? And he's like, NA? Oh, I don't want that. Like that defeats the whole purpose. And I was like, okay, that was a good call. But like, you know, maybe he should have started with an NA.

Um, but you know, I mean, it, it was fairly humorous when you have tap beer and one of ours being NA and it's not like obvious, like we don't have non alcoholic next to it. We just have athletic run wild

Kevin: Yeah, that's funny. And it would be a good experiment, right? I know. It's probably miles all night. And if he, if he pretended to be more and more exuberant, um, yes.

Uh, so just curious, any suggestions, for people in the hospitality industry who are looking to quit drinking, cut back on drinking, but it's so hard because you're surrounded by it all [00:43:00] the time. And you're, uh, you, you know, you're constantly serving it to people. And then, you know, it's anything

that you could suggest there to help them if they want to quit and want to cut back, like, what are some options there again, probably not a lot, you know, not as many places as yours, that would have different options or, anything like that, but any to get through those, yeah, maybe tough hours when again, you're

Kat: surrounded by, I mean, I think that I rely really heavily on gratitude. So like before I come into work every day, I think of three reasons why I'm really grateful that I'm not drinking anymore and I write them down. And that's like kind of my anchor for the night. Um, and like I said, my desire for alcohol isn't as strong anymore.

Like I don't. I guess I feel gratitude when I make it to the end of the night and I'm looking at [00:44:00] people that are who I used to be and I'm like, Oh God, I'm just so glad that that's not how I feel. Like I'm so grateful that I get to go home and kiss my kids goodnight and feel good and get up tomorrow morning and go for a walk and not have a headache and not feel sluggish and like all the things.

And so I think for me, like I lean so heavily into why I'm grateful. And I think just, you know, we definitely have a policy of not drinking because we do have a couple of people on our team that aren't as, you know, I've actually been sober a lot longer than me, but aren't as comfortable around it.

And they're fine serving it, but not fine seeing their colleagues or their peers drinking on shift, which I totally understand. And I also just think it's bad practice. But, um, but that's beside the point. Um, so I think that our culture is set [00:45:00]up at magpie that we're sober while we're working and then it doesn't feel to our staff, uh, you know, it doesn't feel to them like they're missing out, but I know that that's not everywhere.

So then I lean back into the gratitude. And that we just look for, what it is that, that keeps us tied to that commitment or conviction or whatever you want to call it.

Kevin: Yeah, it's almost like playing the tape forward to the next morning, you know, you have to walk and meditate and do your tapping and go outside and do yoga and having that routine in place, or someplace to go. That or having that, um, cause you're going to be, you're going to be tired.

You're going to be hungry. So kind of trying to focus on those things as they come hungry, angry, tired. Right. Am I, you know, you're going to be worn out. So making sure that you eat, you know, along the way. Um. And having that thing in [00:46:00] place where you can be like, okay, going home, my routine, I'm looking forward to bed.

I'm going to play the tape forward to tomorrow. Those types of things that can help you get through. And if you didn't, or having other options, like I'll have that athletic, I'll have that honey zero, I'll have the Coke or whatever it is, it doesn't have to be. I know we're talking a lot about, uh, like.

Yeah. Alcohol free drinks, right? Beer and wine and spirits and like those types of alcohol free drinks, but it can be a tea or whatever at that. Everybody. Yeah, yeah, I mean, and we're not, we're no way encouraging that you drink, uh, you know, these types of things. I think it's everybody's decision whether you are cutting back or quitting because, if you're cutting back and you have.

And any beer. And that could maybe be like, oh yeah, Uhhuh, it was good. I'm gonna have another one. One, I'm gonna real one alcohol one this time. And, and then this, the flip doesn't. Yeah. And, and you might wanna [00:47:00] go back and forth. The flip doesn't always happen.

Kat: Yep.

Kevin: Yeah, yeah. Or you're looking to, you know, sober, you're alcohol free, you're not drinking, whatever it is.

Like, and you have one and you're like, Ooh. Absolutely.

Kat: And I think, I think a lot of that is like understanding what your. I hate the word trigger. I really, like, I really don't like it, but like, I, I'm, I'm trying to think of a word, but we all know what I mean, but whatever, you know, we all understand what kind of hits that switch for us.

That's like. Oh, this is a little too close to home for me. And for me, I don't have that, but we have, we have a chef and a server that absolutely cannot have a, uh, an a drink. Like it just feels too close to what it used to be. And, um, And so I have total respect for that, that that is not available to everyone, and in which case I think it is that kind of thinking about whatever it [00:48:00] is when you get home at night, whether it's binge watching Netflix or having a glass of, you know, soda water with, like, calming herbs or whether it's tea or It's weird.

It's weird. Whether it's just like actually crashing when you get home or listening to a sleep story from calmer, I don't know, but whatever it is, it's your thing. It is your thing that like ties the night up. And then once you have that routine, then everything, the steps toward it make more sense.

Kevin: This takes me back to my high school and college, uh, days whenever I worked, uh, busing and, and serving and Right. I was 21. Yeah. But at the end, when I was serving at, yeah, at two in the morning, I had something to drink just like one. And then, then I went, cleaned up and I went to, uh, this.

Gas station that had good subs. They made, I picked up a sub at three in the morning. It was open all the time and an iced tea. I went home and I ate and watch TV. Um, but I, I, [00:49:00] every single time I did that. But yeah, having that routine is I think important no matter what you're doing, where you're doing it, you know, . finding the time that might be the toughest and trying to surround it with a positive, more positive routine, uh, and building it because it's not something that you're just going to be like, Oh, I'm going to do a cat and meditation tapping. I'm going to do that. That might not work for you. Right.

Kat: No, I have a pretty robust self

Kevin: care.

Yeah. Build it over time and keep working on it. And see what, see what helps and see what, um, But at least, you know, then like, Oh, I did, I tried tapping. I didn't really like it. I know, I know, you know, maybe a little bit there. I know I could go back

Kat: to it if I wanted to. I think the more tools that people have that they can try out and see what works and the better.

And, um, and I think support systems to, um, just like knowing. Obviously, not every bar [00:50:00] restaurant is going to be a safe space. But if you know that you have one and you know that the relationships are there with someone there that you feel comfortable to say, this is my journey, and it's great to have a partner in that, like, that's amazing.

Kevin: Yeah. Um, all right. Well, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us today before we wrap it up?

I think any other tips, tricks or, uh, Just general wisdom that you'd like to, I

Kat: mean, I think that there's, um, you know, if you have a place that you regularly have been to in the past and you have a relationship with them, I think a lot of times they just don't have the perspective, um, that this is important, right?

It's like just not there yet with understanding the value of this. And so if you have a relationship with someone and you're like, You know what? [00:51:00] I've been to the, you know, liquor store and they actually have Einz 5 0, which is an amazing non alcoholic wine. Or they have Naughty AF or whatever. Is there any chance like that you guys could get that in?

Most of the time, like we want to do that for people. Like we want to make that happen. Um, and a lot of times it's just simply getting bogged down with the routine. This is what we reorder. This is what we reorder. And. If there are suggestions that come with compassion, like a lot of times people are willing to do that and or like you said, like a lot of times I call ahead of time and say, Hey, do you have anything like we just went to like our favorite place over in Livingston's this amazing it's called Campione and it's like this incredible transport.

To, to New York City in this little corner, um, delicious restaurant. Anyway, and I called and I was like, do you guys have any NA drinks? And they were like, well, I [00:52:00] mean we have athletic beer. And I was like, cool. Could I pay a corkage fee and like bring my NA wine? And they were like, of course. And of course they didn't charge me for the corkage.

'cause you know, they're kind. But you know, I think that that's always available to people. And I think just like taking some. Initiative to be comfortable where you are and to make those experiences count like it was our wedding anniversary, and I didn't feel like a beer with pasta. Like, I didn't want that.

I wanted the experience of a bubbly something in a wine glass. And so I made it happen. And I think sometimes it's just. Asking kindly and, and usually people want to make your experience better anyway. So that would be my, my closings.

Kevin: Yeah. And, and I've heard that before too. I, I've heard people, ask if the country club could stock a certain NA wine.

I've heard people [00:53:00] ask their local bar to be like, Hey, can you get, and they did. And uh, someone else, um, was going on a cruise and called, I think it was Virgin and, and called them.

And. Yeah. Said, Hey, do you have any alcohol free options on the boat? And they're like, oh yeah, we have this, this, and they're like, great. 'cause you know, I don't drink and all this. Well, don't you know from, don't you know, don't you know? Uh, but don't you know, don't you know that, uh, You know, they, they, you know, make the little animals out of the towels and all that, and they had a bottle of alcohol free champagne on That's so sweet.

In their room. Sweet. And

Kat: our culture is absolutely flooded in alcohol and no one, I mean, you have to explain why you don't drink, right? Like that's where we are in the world.

And so, so we also have to [00:54:00] remember. That everyone assumes you drink unless you say otherwise, which isn't fair, but like, if you want to have the experience that you want to have, sometimes you have to ask.

Kevin: Absolutely. Okay. All

Kat: right. Thank you so much.

Kevin: Thank you very much. Um, if you'd like to share where people can find you, uh, and I'll put this

Kat: Started a new Instagram, this sober kat, with a K. And, one legged magpie is our bar.

Kevin: So that's all I got. Awesome. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for

Kat: coming on and sharing your

Kevin: story and a little bit about, I mean, kind of figuring out where to go

Kat: to Red Lodge. We're a fun spot to

Kevin: visit. Yeah, definitely. Uh, sounds awesome. So anytime I'm there, it's funny. I've ever since I've gone down this road and been on Instagram and all that, anytime we go someplace, wherever it is, [00:55:00] totally.

Oh yeah. Cause he's just, you know, everybody's right across the world. And it's like, Ooh, I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to, you know, somewhere in Florida or Atlanta or wherever people here and I can always think of somebody. So no,

Kat: it's, it's better. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much for your time and for doing all of this.

It's amazing.

Kevin: Yeah, thank you. And thank you all for listening to this week's episode of the Reframeable podcast. Brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol.

It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like subscribe and share with those that you may, that you feel may benefit from it. If you have a topic you'd like us to cover on the podcast, send an email to podcast at reframe app.

com. Or if you're on the reframe app, just give it a shake and let us know your questions there. I want to thank you again [00:56:00] for listening and be sure to come back next week for another episode. Have a great day. Thanks.

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